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Post by "DoubleAction" on Sept 22, 2004 17:52:18 GMT -5
...Today I was browsing the specs of the CQB, in a 2002 Wilson Combat Catalog. I noticed that the CQBs had the #314c Sear and #455 Hammer installed. These are Metal Injected Molded parts, commonly referred to as "MIM". I retrieved a newer updated 2003 catalog and noticed that the CQBs had the #314 Sear, and #337B Hammer installed. These parts are manufactured from machined steel. I called customer service at Wilson Combat to get a track on this, and whether the suspicions of their sudden price increase was reflective from this change. After talking to one of their reps, my suspicions was reaffirmed about the reasons of their price increase, and their change from using MIM parts to the Steel parts. The Hammer and Sear seemed to be the only two parts reflected in this cost cutting measure of a pistol costing very close to two thousand dollars. To tell the MIM from the Steel; Pull back on the hammer ( Chamber unloaded ) and look for a circle with a round dent in the center; This is MIM. |
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Post by TMan on Sept 23, 2004 8:32:19 GMT -5
Okay, I have one, so do you think it would be a good idea to replace them with the newer parts?
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Sept 23, 2004 9:13:07 GMT -5
TMan; I was hoping yours would be the later, but it appears both you and I have the MIMs. My firm belief is; If one is to go through the labor of installing and fitting parts to such minute tolerances and smoothness, let it be of the very best parts available. As it is; Your Wilson Combat CQB has a lifetime warranty, am I correct?, and with such, your pistol will be fine with the #314c Sear and #455B hammer. If any problem arises, it will be at the sear nose to hammer hook engagement. This is just one reason why I've always used the EGW Sear, with the preference of a Nowlin Hammer on a couple of my Colts.
My suggestion, which I'll also take, is to continue using the pistol as it is until you find it necessary to send it in for warranty service. If anything malfunctions with the fire control system, due to those MIM parts, Wilson Combat can be held accountable, through their warranty or otherwise. Let's not forget that many anti-gun groups supports the concept of consumer protection for firearms. Sending the pistol in now would be a waste of shipping costs, and more added for the parts and labor for a new trigger job. I say let's organize and request that Wilson pick up the tab on this one. You, or anyone is free to post my thread on any gun forum.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Sept 23, 2004 9:22:01 GMT -5
Okay, I have one, so do you think it would be a good idea to replace them with the newer parts? One other thing TMan; The machined steel #314 Sear, and #337B Hammer was available when the CQB was manufactured, the newer parts was the MIM, which Wilson used as a cost cutting measure. Two thousand dollar pistols are supposed to be protected from these kind of cost cutting measures. I've been doing business with Wilson long before they began building their own pistols, and this took me by total surprise. |
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Sept 23, 2004 15:40:21 GMT -5
For reassurance; Today I detailed cleaned my CQB Compact and took the time to look the Hammer Hooks and Sear Nose over with a Jeweler's Lupe. After putting approximately 3,000. rds through this pistol, I found these areas to be in the same condition they as were when new.
One contributer to eliminating pre-mature wear on the sear and hammer hooks; I detail strip the pistols after every session, and lubricate the Sear Nose to Hammer Hook Engagement area with a very small amount of molybdenum disulfide action lube.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Sept 23, 2004 16:09:29 GMT -5
Went looking for others with this issue about the MIM parts; I spent very little time in my search. The 1911 Forum Boys had Wilson Combat almost tarred and feathered, along with some members on the Glock Forum; Yes that's right, The Glock Forum. Here is a sampleComplete thread is at: www.glocktalk.com/showthread...im&pagenumber=2"One other thing I forgot to address. MIM parts. A company that I will not name gave the MIM parts a bad name because they had a bad batch of MIM parts. This was many years ago. Since then remarkable things have happened. MIM parts are extremely dense and very exact. They are much less prone to wear and breakage than a factory Colt, Spfg. etc. part. This is why we use them in our CQB's, etc. Although not quite as hard as our tool steel parts, they will last a very long time. This is why we can still quarante our total gun, including the MIM parts, for life. The tool steel parts are actually overkill. The MIM parts last for life (I know of one gun that has over 100,000 rounds thru it and the trigger pull feels the same as it did when new) therefore I guess you could say the tool steel parts lasts for a lifetime and ½.<br> We use the tool steel parts in our full custom guns. (These are the ones that cost from $2800.00 up) Our full custom guns, Stealth, Tactical Elite, Super Grade and Tactical Super Grade, are not for everyone because of price. They are intended for someone that can afford the very best we can do. They actually won't last any longer, shoot any straighter or be more dependable than our CQB's, Protectors and Classics, but we spend many extra hours in fitting and prepping them for a perfect cosmetic handgun as well as a great shooter. And because of this, we use the tool steel parts that take longer to fit. Again, all of us guys here, including Bill Wilson use the very same MIM parts in our guns. And we shoot a bunch! Once installed and fit, no one can tell the difference in the feel of the trigger pull with either type of parts. Ok, I'm done with my book. Hope this helps too. Just didn't want you to believe everything you read from self appointed experts." Frank Robbins Wilson Combat"
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Post by 9mm on Sept 23, 2004 19:05:39 GMT -5
I do agree MIM has gotten a bad name from a few bad experiences. I can vouch for poor forgings that have caused equipment failures too.
Just like fuel injection, every new tech. has its hiccups.
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Post by KrustyBurger on Sept 25, 2004 8:15:17 GMT -5
So, we who own other MIM parts pistols like Smith's 686 or 1911 shouldn't worry about it too, I hope? DA, I agree that when you spend way above average bucks for a CQB, etc., there shouldn't be cutting of any corners.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Sept 25, 2004 15:16:18 GMT -5
Krusty; Since S&W began using MIM hammers, the firing pins went to the frames. Would it be just a coincidence that these two changes happened at the same time? This was my first clue that the MIMs may not be strong enough to do what the steel hammers had been doing for over a hundred years. As for the 1911s, Kimbers started out life using the Chip McCormick MIM parts in their pistols. MIM is obiously a big costing cutting measure in the attempt to duplicate hardened machined steel components. Maybe some MIM parts is getting better, from what I saw when I inspected the CBQ Sear and Hammer Hooks; They maintained their sharp edges with no signs of wear, whatsoever. As far as the frame mounted firing pins on the S&W revolvers; Colt has been using frame mounted floating firing pins in some of their best revolvers, including the Python.
I'm beginning to get the feeling that I'm getting sucked in by the use of these MIM parts.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Aug 25, 2009 23:35:43 GMT -5
I will have more on the use MIM parts.
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