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Post by Ricochet on Mar 23, 2004 12:54:25 GMT -5
I have heard that Springfield is coming out with a .45 GAP version of the XD. Anybody else heard that? Who beside Glock will be using this cartridge? Do you think it will grow to be a common caliber?? Just curious.  |
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Mar 23, 2004 17:37:20 GMT -5
Ricochet; Seraph has about talked me into the .45 Super; with the .45 GAP, only time will tell who jumps in to manufacture pistols that chamber it, and ammunition companies to provide the cartridges. The .357 sig is one success story which many would like to follow.
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Post by Ricochet on Mar 23, 2004 19:08:12 GMT -5
I guess I don't know what a .45 Super is. How does it compare to the GAP?
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Mar 23, 2004 19:39:13 GMT -5
Ricochet; The information I have on the .45 Super is the use of a thicker walled case , loaded to higher pressures of around 37,000 psi, resulting in velosities of a 230 gr. JRN bullet at an average of 1083 fps. The 200 gr. JHP .45 Super will get an average of 1185 fps in velosity. But still; In the 185 gr. +P Gold Dot .45 acp, my ammunition gets 1100 fps. Price is also an issue if you intend on getting some range time in on a cartridge. I have not compared these with the GAP cartridge.
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Post by Ricochet on Mar 23, 2004 20:51:30 GMT -5
Here's a comparison photo of the .45 GAP to the .45 ACP. GAP is on the left, noticeably shorter.  |
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Mar 24, 2004 20:25:03 GMT -5
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Post by Ricochet on Mar 26, 2004 10:33:04 GMT -5
Ahhhh! Thanks DA.
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Post by Mikolev on Mar 26, 2004 16:01:14 GMT -5
I saw a 5" XD in .45GAP on some .45GAP advocacy page. It blew my mind when I first saw it, now I'm thinking I wouldn't mind owning one.
I originally hated the thought of a smaller .45 round. BUt, I was comparing it ballistically to the .45ACP. Now, I feel, it's better to compare it to the .40 b/c it's not meant to replace the .45ACP, yet you have to compare it to something.
The Glock 37 has some appeal to me. The heavier slide of the Glock 21 on the frame of a Glock 22 looks a little top heavy, but I think I'm growing to like the look.
The ballistics are more impressive than I thought they'de be. Originally when I heard that Glock was developing a round that operated at lower pressures, I rolled my eyes. Who wants a weaker round? Looking at the ballistic data, though, it's plenty powerful to be ranked with the other "Big Dogs", as far as self defense rounds go.
Truth be told, I would buy a Glock 37 ( or better yet a XD in .45GAP), but I'm worried about the staying power of the round. Will it be around in 10 years, or fade into obscurity. I don't want a $500 paper wieght.
Another thought: The lower pressures and thicker shell casing should eliminate most of the danger of Kabooms.
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Post by MitchHankSauer on Mar 28, 2004 1:22:22 GMT -5
Maybe I missed it in the thread and maybe it's a dumb quesiton, but will this GAP round be able to chamber in all current .45 ACP barrels?
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Post by Ricochet on Apr 20, 2004 7:44:05 GMT -5
I believe it would theoretically fit a .45 ACP barrel, but it won't work in a .45 ACP handgun.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Apr 20, 2004 20:33:21 GMT -5
For optional cartridges in the .45 acp pistols, with frame, slide, and magazine, compatabilities, involving nothing more than a conversion barrel, I would take $ 290. and purchase the .460 Rowland conversion barrel.
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Post by papercutter on Apr 23, 2004 7:10:27 GMT -5
I was reading up on the .45 GAP , its just a bit less accurate than .45 ACP . They never got the root of the idea , maybe compressing the powder area will give a more uniform burn / the short case cycles quicker . The velocity was as good or a bit higher than ACP .45.
looking up some ballistics the other day, a few loads in . 38 + P were the same as SIG . 357 as far as,,,,, fps and ft /LB energy.TEXT
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Apr 23, 2004 19:06:41 GMT -5
papercutter; The loads that your referring to in the .38 special +P , would be for what bullet weight ? The same as the 357 sig ?
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Post by papercutter on Apr 24, 2004 0:17:10 GMT -5
Doubleaction
38 + P 5 inch barrel ************
115 gr 8.0 grs of V3N37 1436 fps Ft /lb 525
147 gr. 6.9 grs V3n37 1224 fps 485
357 SIG ************
115 gr. 8.7grs VN350 1400 fps 500
147 gr. 6.9 grs VN350 1170 fps 445
These are XTP bullet , I think hornady
These are select loads out of one manual , at MAX all just under 35,000 psi c u p, NOT FOR OLD .38 PISTOLS , The Vihta vuori powder seem to be the ticket, I have only used the N 310 .45 which is a bulleye burn rate powder, just a bit faster
START 10- 20% LIGHTER ON POWDER CHARGE.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Apr 24, 2004 0:35:38 GMT -5
That is very good for the .38 special, but kinda of slow for the 357 sig. I've seen the 125 gr. Corbon in .357 sig average 1470 fps; The georgia arm 125 gr, 357 sig has averaged 1458 fps.
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Post by papercutter on Apr 24, 2004 8:29:26 GMT -5
DoubleAction
Those loads for 38 + P seem very hot compared to old + P , I really think they mean 38 + P for use in a .357. As the 35,000 psi is way above the old revolver / low pressure spec,s of 16k - 18k MAX for 38 special. I have found most hot loads shoot poorly, with mid or light loads working best for target.
A milder .38 + P load in pressure is 147 gr. ,,, 10.2 gr. of No 9 ,,,, 1175 fps ,,,,,450 ft/lbs at 29.4 k psi .This load seems a bit more reasonable and can still be up to SIG .357 spec,s
A highway patrol officers once said " teach your wife to shoot a 4 inch .357 mag " even a mis will turn around most adversaries after seeing that 12 "fire ball / muzzle blast in the dark.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Apr 24, 2004 10:50:24 GMT -5
I do not think I would want to shoot those loads in a small frame revolver, unless it was chambered in the .357magnum. For the most part, if I need more from a cartridge, I step up to a more durable gun designed to handle the more powerful cartridge, in this case, the .357 magnum. The 357sig, the phenominal cartridge that it is, was designed to work in the smaller lighter semi-autos such as the alloy frame Sig 229. Since it's introduction, it is now chambered in the personnal size 239, and the full size 226. The 4 1/2 lb. single action trigger break and rapid fire/ auto fed cycle of the semi-autos of Sig, gives this cartridge a new meaning to those who cut their teeth on the .38 special.
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Post by Mikolev on Apr 29, 2004 8:18:59 GMT -5
Has anyone seen the side by side comparison of the .45GAP and the .45ACP in the latest shooting times.
Basically, it appears that the 45GAP is superior to the 45ACP in just about every single way.
It compares same bullet weight and manufactorer. As I remember, there was not one example of the .45ACP being superior to the 45GAP.
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Post by papercutter on Apr 29, 2004 17:32:19 GMT -5
Mikolev
I read it as, the accuracy was just a bit less, but everything else was as good or better than the 45 ACP.
My spin on it was, it seemed like a marketing / sales push.
You know the drill ,,, 1 see it in a magazine, 2 know you need to buy one, 3 find out it wasn't that great. I have spent thousands that way.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Apr 29, 2004 19:01:29 GMT -5
Mikolev; Did the Shooting Times article compare the .45GAP to the .45ACP in +P hollow points?
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