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Post by "DoubleAction" on Mar 13, 2004 17:22:59 GMT -5
Why so many swear their devotion to this cartridge is for very good reason; one being, first and foremost, "Stopping Power". Another is the variables of bullet designs, weights, and the cartridge case. The cartridge case of the .45 acp is capable of withstanding tremendous pressures; while only pushing a standard 230 grain fmj at lower velosities, the same case in a +P load can push a 185 gr. hollow point to velosities of around 1100 fps. The pressures of the case for the 230 grain fmj bullet at 900 fps is only around 16,000 psi, while the +P is working in higher pressures, with a ceiling of 23,000 psi. This makes the .45 acp case one of the most desirable in obtaining higher velosities from it's stronger case, with it's wide diameter bullet, in the 1911 semi-auto.
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Post by papercutter on Mar 17, 2004 8:27:58 GMT -5
I think the track record of a .45 in war, the tradition of .45 long colt to .45 acp. adds to the mystique. As you said the large & varied supply of after market parts keeps it alive, with a many choices in bullets weights,makes it all the more flexable.
Small calibers at high velocity is bad math,,,,, big holes win ,in the "stop um where they stand" department , it has for years.
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Post by Seraph on Mar 18, 2004 22:16:58 GMT -5
I think of the M1911 and the .45ACP cartridge as one integral system, as they were in fact designed that way. You could point to either one as the reason for the popularity of the other. The M1911 in .45ACP is truly a breed apart, with it's incomparable 90+yr track record. One thing that has sweetened the deal for me lately is the idea of beefing up the recoil and firing pin springs for .45 Super. This seems to go a little beyond +P, but if more study and inquiry turn up no downside, I don't see how I can resist. Anyone have any experience pertinent to Super-sizing a 1911 in this way?
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Mar 19, 2004 13:42:49 GMT -5
Seraph; Dzrtram, another one of our crew has a .45 super or two. He has a certain pistolsmith do the conversion for him. There is the 460 Rowland conversion for the 1911 .45acp also, it will push the 45 to 44 magnum velosities. I remain what is affordable, fun, and what seems to work in my guns to shoot. I usually stay around $10. per 50 rds, in 230 gr. fmj, and prefer the georgia arms reloads for that purpose; their 185gr. +P Gold Dot, in new cases, will get 1100 fps at a cost of $13.75 for 50 rds. Patrick Sweeney tested the georgia arms ammunition, alongside others, with the 460 Rowland, in his Gun Digest Book of the 1911.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Mar 19, 2004 14:03:54 GMT -5
I can only talk about the .45 super because I have not bought into this coversion for my 1911 for my reasons of choice. The Super is actually a shorten case version of the .45 Winchester Magnum, triimed to the same length of the standard .45 acp case. The difference in the Super case is it's thicker walls to withstand the increase pressures to propell the heavier 200 and 230 gr .45 " diameter bullets in velosities exceeding 1000 and 1100 fps. For this, a strong supported chamber is required, and that is the reasoning behind having a ramped barrel for this cartridge. You would, of course, increase the rating of the recoil spring, and possibly give thought to a very good buffer system. There are several options of choice involving other conversions for the .45acp, including the .400 Corbon.
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Post by Seraph on Mar 20, 2004 16:19:03 GMT -5
Texas Ammunition sells .45 Super 230gr FMJ for $30/100rds. That's cheaper than most +P by a good amount, and comparable to Georgia Arms. But I do believe that I will still be able to shoot Winchester/Wally World fodder if the gun is tuned right. From what I've read, the .45 Super loads make much less pressure than a 9mm Parabellum, but I have thought about a more fully supported barrel nonetheless. Still thinking about that. I'm also interested in a good buffer, but I will try without first, then with, and pitch it if it starts causing jams.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Mar 20, 2004 19:52:43 GMT -5
Seraph; How much is the Texas Ammo 185 gr. JHP- XTP ? From the info I have on this one in .45 super, it only has a velosity of 1174 fps. The georgia arms in the .45 acp + P, at $13.75 per 50 rds, has a velosity of 1100 fps, with the 185 gr. Gold Dot Bullet. The Cominoli "Framer Saver " guide rod has dual buffers on the guide rod head, one buffer next to the frame, and the other next to the slide; I have such a rod on my Colt Officer's acp. The reversed plug also has an inner shoulder, which is less punishing to the buffer.
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Post by Seraph on Mar 21, 2004 9:59:50 GMT -5
All the .45 Super ammo is priced the same. I know Georgia Arms has the nice price on their +P, but they will not supply the FMJ's I've been wanting. Still, I'm sure I will order some of their stuff and run it through my gun. Some have asked me why I wouldn't just get a 10mm. First, I already have a .45, and a bunch of mags for it. Second, my "conversion" allows me to shoot a much wider selection of ammo than is available in 10mm, subsonic up through .45 Super Express. I might or might not even need to switch springs to go from one cartridge to another.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Mar 21, 2004 11:00:04 GMT -5
Seraph; I've often pondered the thought of coverting to a cartridge with higher velosities with my 1911s, as I have with the .357sig, from the .40 S&W; my only problem, after doing the conversion, is finding reasonably priced ammunition, offered from various suppliers. With the .460 Rowland, the conversion is made simple with a conversion barrel, same as the .357sig. How difficult would it be for me to find the .45 Super from ammunition suppliers, other than having to go through Texas Ammo, and how much do their ammunition cost, on the average ?
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Post by Seraph on Mar 22, 2004 11:54:06 GMT -5
.45 Super goes for $29.95/50, expensive, no doubt, but comparable to many brands of .45 ACP +P. Triton's .450SMC seems to be priced about the same. Plus, you can still shoot ACP and ACP +P. None of these guys really have a claim on the bullet design, so it'll probably be made by other mfg's as it catches on.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Mar 22, 2004 18:10:38 GMT -5
Seraph; My firm believe in a cartridge's future often rests upon those pistol's that are manufactured to chamber it. The .357 sig was one such cartridge that I bought into, but not to the extent to where my pistols were totally dependant on the survival of the .357sig, because the .40 S&W is compatable with the switch of a barrel. I would like to see the Sig 220 stainless frame in .45acp with a drop in .45 Super conversion barrel. With the, already, ramped barrels of the 220, this would be a good option to the already popular .45 acp. I think a move such as this, by a major firearms manufacturer, would give the .45 Super a boost in the right direction, without having to rely of the conversions offered by pistolsmiths. Maybe then we could see more offerings in the .45 Super by more ammunition manufacturers.
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Post by Seraph on Mar 23, 2004 10:16:25 GMT -5
DA, the very reason I have been so enthusiastic is that this cartridge is of identical external dimensions to a .45ACP round, so no barrel replacement is necessary. None of the official conversion kits contain or mention recommendation of a ramped barrel, except for the Glock kit. I'd say it's very likely you could change the recoil spring and firing pin spring in your .45ACP SIG, and fire .45 Super.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Mar 23, 2004 17:25:26 GMT -5
Seraph; The reason I mentioned the Sig is it's ramped barrel and full case support of the case. I would not fire it in the alloy frame, but rather the steel frame. There is not doubt that I would be looking for a heavier recoil spring. I'm going to give this some thought, now that you mentioned it. I know that my steel frame 1911s will hold up to the .460 Rowland cartridge, without the ramped barrel, and they should have little problem with the .45 Super. My Commander shoots the 185 gr. Gold Dot + P with no problem, and it's at 1100 fps.
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