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Post by TMan on Oct 11, 2012 23:18:50 GMT -5
I didn't think I would ever get one of these since they a scarcer than hen's teeth. Like so many other things, I was wrong. What I didn't like was: the lack of checkering on the front strap, and the big item was that I could rock the slide, but nothing like on the Ruger P90. My Wilson Combat and Les Baers have very tight tolerances, but the Ruger does not. However, when talking to the top guy at our local Bass Pro shops about my Ruger P90 and its rocking slide, he remarked "leave it alone, it always goes bang." So, I expect the Ruger may not give me 3" groups at 50 yards, but it will always go "bang", which is what I expect from a Ruger. I will find out.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Oct 12, 2012 11:45:35 GMT -5
.....The tight tolerances on the Wilsons and the Les Baers was probably fitted to the frame. The Wilsons that I have is fitted perfectly, not to loose and not to tight. When racking the slide, the slide seems to be rolling on ball bearings or smooth ice.
.....Usually; This kind of smooth action and fit is difficult to find on a factory production assembled handgun today, but it happens. The looseness and rattling ( when you shake it ) is often referred to "Slop"......Slopping Fitting, between the frame and the slide. In reality, the 1911 Pistol is not meant to have tight tolerances because it's purpose of being a combat military sidearm. Overly tight tolerances creates drag in the action and makes for disassembly to be very difficult, and the added bonus of having a loose action, is dust and foreign particles that lodge in the action won't drag down the action when being used in the adverse field conditions. Ever wonder why the original Colt 1911 has an internal case extractor ?......I couldn't help but notice that this Ruger also has the internal extractor.
.......The best thing to do before purchasing a factory production 1911, is to pick it up, shake it a few times, and rack the slide to check for excessive drag. Nothing upsets me more, than a tight fitting 1911....The pins has to be pushed out with a punch and a hammer, and the ambidextrous thumb safety has to be dislodged with a flat headed screw driver .....I'm talking about 1911s that cost over $1700. dollars.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Oct 12, 2012 12:11:00 GMT -5
.......TMan; This is from Ruger :American & International Production Quality ISO Standards
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Oct 12, 2012 12:24:15 GMT -5
However, when talking to the top guy at our local Bass Pro shops about my Ruger P90 and its rocking slide, he remarked "leave it alone, it always goes bang."
....TMan; Is this where you bought this pistol ? .....I looked around and found that Ruger might have a lot of back orders, which some times means that quality might suffer, and some pistols will go out of the plant without having the seal of approval from the quality inspectors. I have seen this from other firearms manufacturers...especially, sloppy fitted slides. ......If you wanted a banger, you could have bought a Hi-Point.
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Post by TMan on Oct 12, 2012 17:52:54 GMT -5
DA, not sure if your comment "this pistol" refers to the P90 or the SR1911, so I'll answer both: P90 was from Academy and the SR1911 was from www.sportingarms.comToday was interesting at the Range. The SR1911 drew shooters like honey draws ants. It was a busy day and I was RO so I only got to shoot 25 rounds, but only one was outside the bullseye at 7 yards. Ken got there just as I was leaving. Hopefully he will get there earlier the next time I take it to the range. He is the best handgun shooter that I've met, and he still shoots competitively. (There are others that were better in their time, but currently have physical ailments). Becky sells the gun at ~$600, and the MSRP is $800. She told me she heard of dealers selling them for between $900 - $1000. I don't know what markup people are doing on the Taurus PT1911, but I do know that the wholesale price on the SR1911 is less than the Taurus. The Taurus trigger required work to get it decent. The Ruger, like the STI, Wilson Combat, and Les Baers did not require any work. Several people dry fired the Ruger and were amazed at the trigger. You just don't expect that in a production gun. Would I sell mine for $1000 - no; $1200 - no; $1500 - no; $1800 - maybe. (Edited to fix a problem that caused my high school English teacher to roll over in her grave).
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Oct 12, 2012 18:45:12 GMT -5
...TMan; I got thrown off between the Ruger P90 and the SR1911. The image that you posted ( SR1911 ) was what confused me.
....My aphasia is messing me up today.
........I take it that you are very satisfied with your SR1911 ?
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Post by TMan on Oct 12, 2012 19:31:02 GMT -5
........I take it that you are very satisfied with your SR1911 ? I would say "Duh", but I consider that to be rude. You bet I'm satisfied - one of the best, if not best deals I've ever gotten. It is hard to believe this thing sells for less than $1000. No wonder they are so hard to get.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Oct 12, 2012 20:09:20 GMT -5
........I take it that you are very satisfied with your SR1911 ? I would say "Duh", but I consider that to be rude. You bet I'm satisfied - one of the best, if not best deals I've ever gotten. It is hard to believe this thing sells for less than $1000. No wonder they are so hard to get. ........TMan; Most of my best pistols was bought for less than $1,000. dollars. .....It's apparent, that Ruger is making a big mark in the 1911 market. It seems as though, Ruger is working very hard to sway customers, with these prices. This is how Kimber swayed customers away from Colt & Springfield. This Ruger seems as though it has a lot extra options, for the money. I would be hard pressed to find this much in a 1911, years ago. ..Thanks for posting your review on the pistol.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Oct 12, 2012 20:26:25 GMT -5
Ruger SR1911 ........I take it that you are very satisfied with your SR1911 ?
You bet I'm satisfied - one of the best, if not best deals I've ever gotten. It is hard to believe this thing sells for less than $1000. No wonder they are so hard to get.
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Post by TMan on Oct 13, 2012 9:10:40 GMT -5
Know what a "loss-leader" is? I was thinking about it this morning over coffee. It wouldn't surprise me that Ruger was selling this at their cost.
Everyone raves about the pistol in the gun magazines, and what sticks in people's minds: "It is a Ruger".
So Joe Blow decides to go buy a 22LR pistol and the gun store has Browning Buckmarks and Rugers. In the back of his mind is all that he has read about the Ruger 1911 so he buys the Ruger based on name recognition.
I don't know what the distributors mark-ups are, but based on what the distributors are selling it to the dealers for, I'd guess that Ruger is getting less than $500/pistol.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Oct 13, 2012 14:29:09 GMT -5
......TMan; When I was invited to the S.H.O.T. Show , in 1999, the marked down for dealers was 20 %.
....Twenty Years Ago; The features on this pistol would have to be done by a custom pistolsmith, and it would cost big bucks. I have some old catalogs, with pistolsmith prices, maybe I will post these prices.
......The popularity and growth of the 1911 never ceases to amaze me. I only wish that I could say the same thing about the economical growth of our Nation.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Oct 13, 2012 17:07:30 GMT -5
.....By the way, TMan; The Beavertail Grip Safety, on Ruger SR1911, reminds me of the Ed Brown "High Rise" Beavertail, I can tell by the space between the pin hole and the bump pad. Fitting one of these safeties takes a lot of time and skill. The main concern about the High Rise Grip, is the curvature of the back of the frame to set the hand grip closer to the axis of the bore. This feature is very seldom found on other 1911 production pistols. ......Another feature, among many others :
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Post by TMan on Oct 13, 2012 17:20:21 GMT -5
Wow, I didn't know that about the plunger tube. I had to take my glasses off to inspect it, and it is true. Amazing what they can do with modern milling machines.
Oh, I didn't mention it before, but I just tested it with the digital scale and it breaks at 4lb 4oz average. There is creep, but it isn't gritty.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Oct 13, 2012 18:13:21 GMT -5
Oh, I didn't mention it before, but I just tested it with the digital scale and it breaks at 4lb 4oz average. There is creep, but it isn't gritty......At one time, I doing doing detail cleaning on my brother's 1911 pistols. One of these pistols was a Kimber $1700. dollar piece. The trigger on the pistol was breaking at about 4 1/2 lbs, and what I did to it was polish the trigger strut and make a fine adjustment to the sear spring....This brought the trigger down to 3 1/2 lbs. I prefer not to go any less than 3 1/2 lbs. on a 1911.
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Post by MLB on Oct 14, 2012 22:21:34 GMT -5
TMan, I was very happy to read your positive review of the Ruger. It's probably the first 1911 I'll own. The slide slop is a little concerning, but it apparently isn't loose enough to make for loose groups.
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Post by TMan on Oct 15, 2012 7:20:19 GMT -5
MLB, I was a little surprised by the slide slop. My Custom 1911's are tight.
It is up to the gunsmith to fit the slide to the frame. I don't know how Ruger does it. When you consider how hard they are to obtain from Ruger, I'm guessing that there still is labor intensive work done by hand.
So when you have two people side by side building something manually, usually you will see a slight difference in the finished product.
Also, the Monday/Friday rule probably applies too.
I'm sure there are basic quality control checks that have to be met before the gun is shipped, but I have no idea what they are.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Oct 15, 2012 14:55:39 GMT -5
MLB, I was a little surprised by the slide slop. My Custom 1911's are tight.
It is up to the gunsmith to fit the slide to the frame. I don't know how Ruger does it. C.N.C. Manufacturing ......The frames and slides can be produced on different sides of the Globe, without being match to or fitting to each other. The same thing holds true with barrels. CNC did away with skilled craftsmanship on the factory production lines; Most are assemblers.
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Post by TMan on Oct 15, 2012 15:11:10 GMT -5
DA, I would be very surprised if they did the 1911's wholly on CNC machines. I remember a TV program where they visited the Sigarms site and showed the building of the 1911 and the by hand work they had to do.
They then showed the line for building a "P" pistol and all they did was take the parts and put them together with no filing or stoning required like there was for the 1911.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Oct 15, 2012 16:18:01 GMT -5
....TMan; About every Firearm Manufacturer has a custom shop, for their high end hand fitted pistols. The Sig Sport pistols was hand fitting by skilled craftsman. ......I posted this earlier : Computer Numeric Control (CNC) ....I cannot say enough how much CNC had changed the manufacturing industries and the world we now live in; This especially holds true with the firearm industry. The terms "Pre-Fit" and "Close Tolerances", no longer applies to justify the variants of the American standard ,with "Thats Close Enough". The process of using computer technology, has drastically removed the human error from the equation from the manufacturing industry forever. At no time in history have seen the global exchange of bringing goods and services to the table of finished goods. Where in history have you seen frames produced in another part of in world, slides in a another, barrels another, and components transported by air in over night for next day delivery, and assembled for the customer in just a few hours, while maintaining a strict level of quality standards. Welcome to the world of CNC manufacturing, where "Sloppy" just don't fit in. This slide came with a .40 S&W barrel, and I installed a factory Sig Sauer 357 sig barrel in the same slide. While holding the barrel and slide up to four 48" inch fluorescent tubes, I inspected the light around the hood and the chamber area and port. Perfect Fit.
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