SIGarms

[TBT]

I’ve been on a gun buying frenzy lately (Springfield 1911, Springfield Mil-Spec 1911, traded in the XD sub for a 5” tactical) and have added a few. But I can’t get past the fact that I don’t yet have a SIG. What would you guys recommend as far as SIG’s go? It’s not a CCW or anything, just a gun. House/range gun if you will.

And -
Have any of you looked into the SIGarms factory certified pre owned pistols? They pass a five point inspection and come with a one year warranty. From what I can see, they have guaranteed P220’s, P226’s, and P229’s for $480-$499. Doesn’t sound like a bad deal …

[TMan]

I have one word: "Sport". I have two regular Sigs and two Sports. The Sport versions are far superior. From some of your previous comments, I would recommend the 226 Sport. I can't vouch for the 229 Sport, but the 226 is one of the best I've shot. I don't shoot the 220 Sport as much, but other people that have shot it have really liked it. I would compare the Sport versions to BMW's Motorsport division - whole different animal.

As far as the pre-owned is concerned: if price matters, and you don't mind a little wear and tear as far as looks are concerned, then I think the pre-owned is probably a good idea. When I had the problem with the barrel coming loose on my Heritage .22, it was sent back to the factory for re-work. It is now far superior to what it was when it was brand new. A pre-owned Sig would have been gone over by an 'armorer" to replace anything wornout. It wouldn't at all surprise me that with this extra care, that the pistol would be better than it was when it was new.

Also, sometimes wear is not a bad thing. In spite of all my efforts on the Glock, I still haven't gotten the trigger to be a smooth as the one on my friend's, which has nearly 4,000 rounds through it.

However, I doubt if Sig has Sport versions that are pre-owned. I think most of the pre-owned are LEA trade-ins.

I think you would be happy with a Sig. I only have one H&K, but although it was expensive, I don't rate it as higly as I do the Sig. From an engineering standpoint, I respect the H&K design with its little O'ring, but the lock-up mechanism of the Sig has proven the test of time.

The only thing I don't understand about German made handguns is why the Japanese haven't copied them. ;D

[TBT]

Price isn’t so much of a factor with me, but I’m what you could call … thrifty. I’m not going to spend $850 for a gun that will do the same thing and be as reliable as a $500 gun. All things being equal, looks aren’t important enough to me to throw $350 at.

The Sport is a different animal though, that would be paying more for a superior handgun. It’s something I will think about too. They are really pricey around here though and for that money I might be looking for a tuned 1911, my real true first love in the handgun world.

And no, the Sigarms Certified Preowned Program doesn’t have any sport models. Your right in thinking that they are LEA trade ins. They have the P226, P220, and the P229 right now. All in the price range of $480 - $575.

I really like the looks of the P226 though, it’s a nice looking gun. Well, SIGS aren’t going to win any beauty contests either way, but I really like it.

[TMan]

The 229 is .40 S&W and .357 Sig. Since it is a smaller gun, that equals more recoil. Also, since you like 1911's, you might want to think about the GSR too. However, I don't think of it as a true Sig; it just has their name on it. I obviously don't think of my P210-6 as a true Sig either because when I said I had 4, I forgot about the 210 and the Trailside. I guess I think of the 220, 228 and the two Sports as being true Sigs because they have the same basic mechanism. My 228 is kind of small too, but since it is 9mm the recoil isn't bad.

It is my understanding that the GSR is made here in the US, and just has the Sig name on it. Kind of like the BMW Z3 &Z4 that came out of South Carolina, but who did the engineering on the GSR? Oh yeah, some guy that died a long time ago. As long as they are using quality materials, I expect the GSR would be a decent choice.

The thing about a 1911 is: a whole lot of people make parts for them. Kind of like buying a Ford or Chevy - there is competition, which lowers the price of parts a bit. Looking through the Brownell's catalogue there is page after page after page of parts for a 1911. I'm thinking that I might add another one to my gun collection some time this year.

Hey, want something really sweet to shoot? Get a Beretta Stampede. I've never been so impressed as I have been with it. I have to have discipline to not just shoot it all the time.

I expect we will hear from DA on this topic...

[TBT]

You don't think of the P226 as a "real SIG"?

[TBT]

I don't think I feel as much recoil as some do. I think shooting my UCII in the 45ACP is a walk in the park. I can put 300 rounds throug it, no gloves, using rough rosewoo grips, and not flinch at all.

From what I hear, most people think that the Kimber has a good bit of recoil too.

[MLB]

I was doing some reading on the GSR as my first 1911. I think I'll wait on this one. Do a search on the following forum in the "other 1911's" section. There is one in there with comments from the lead designer. I can't remember which one though.

www.1911forum.com/forums/index.php?

[TMan]

TBT said:

You don't think of the P226 as a "real SIG"?

No, no, no, not the 226 the 210. It is a different design than the 225, 228, and 220.

["DoubleAction"]

Sigarms is the U.S. based firm which imports some of it's parts for the manufacturing process of the Sig Sauer Pistols. Before Sigarms; The pistols maufactured by Sig and Sig Sauer were imported by distributers.
The Sig P-210 is a commercial version of an earlier design acquired by the Swiss Industrial Group from Charles Petter, the SP 47/8. Originally, the design of the 210 was to provide the Swiss Armed Forces with a replacement for the 1929 parabellum pistol.
Because of Switzerland's neutrality laws; Sig formed a contract with J.P. Sauer & Sohn of Germany. The first Sig Sauer, the P-220, incorporated features found with the pre-war Sauer 38-H. Because Sauer & Sohn became a subsidiary of SIG during a mid eighties buy out from SIG, and not the other way around, the Sig Sauers have become to be referred to as SIGS.
From the design of the P-220, came forth the P-225, P-226, P-228, P-229, and P-239. The P-230 is a blowback design, introduced shortly after the 220.
I gave the GSR a close look last week at the range; It is another version of the 1911. I prefer my 1911s to be built on the original design and dimensions of the Colt- Browning. The GSR is something the new owners at the U.S. Based Sigarms came up with to tap in on the 1911 market.
If Sigarms had incorporated the 1911 trigger lockwork into that of a Sport Pistol, with the rail system found with the 210, I might be more enthusiastic.

[TBT]

So what Sig would you recomend for a range/house gun DA?

And do you know anything about the SIG certified pre-owned program?

["DoubleAction"]

TBT; The Sigarms Pre-Owned program seems to be one of those plans which allows police departments to trade in their current issue duty Sigs for an upgrade. I think Glock intitiated a similar program within their business relationship with the L.E. community.
Sigarms must provide some sort of warranty, in order to sell such pistols. I have found most standard P-Series Sigs, even in new condition might sell for an average of $500. Buying a pre-owned from Sigarms will buy you some peace of mind in knowing that the pistol has been thoroughly examined and serviced.
My pick for a house pistol is the Sig 239, chambered in .40 S&W, with Trijicon Tritium Sights. I picked this one because it is the most less expensive to leave out, and easiest to replace.
One good choice would be the Sig 220, chambered in .45 acp; Good knock down with alot of choices in cartridges. If you want something in a lighter bullet weight, with more penetration you can load up a +P cartridge with a 185 gr. jhp. If you want something just for the interior of the home, you can option with glasser safety slugs or something with lower velosities in a soft point bullet. The .45 acp has alot to offer in a home protection cartridge, and the Sig 220 needs very little introduction to it's reputation for being a highly durable pistol.

[TBT]

How good of a range gun would the 220 and 239 be? Truth be told that is more than likely going to be it's main function.

Also, what do you guys think of the "Pro" series from SIG?

["DoubleAction"]

TBT; The 220 is an excellent range pistol, very accurate, smooth recoil, fast follow ups, short resetting single action trigger, good sights, and it has everything to offer in a trouble free, non malfuctioning pistol.
I have three 220s, two in .45 acp and one in 38 Super. I took my 38 Super to the range last weekend with one of my Sport Pistols; I enjoyed shooting the 38 Super more than I did the Sport.

["DoubleAction"]

I cannot guarantee that you would be the slight bit impressed with the Sigpro model.

[TMan]

DoubleAction said:

... I enjoyed shooting the 38 Super more than I did the Sport.

Why?

TBT, I agree with DA, but he didn't address the 239, which as I recall, he has. It is the smallest of their pistols, and it is available in 9mm, which equals less money to shoot. However, since it is small, I think you would notice more recoil with it. When I shot my friends 232, which is .380, I couldn't believe how much recoil it had.

I've seen, but not shot the Sig Pro, and I think it is around the equivalent of the Browning Pro, which I have also seen and I'm not at all impressed with. Of the Sigs, and based on what you already have, I think you would be happiest with the Sig 226 - even if it isn't the Sport version.

[TBT]

Good advise guys ... I'm pretty much set on either a 226 or a 220. Seems like kind of the same pistol, it's just a question of what round I want to put through it.

I've always liked the 220 ... it's a legend, and I've actually shot one of those before. I was impressed too.

I like the fact that the 226 comes in the 357sig, because I've been looking into getting a gun chambered for that round. Maybe that is the way that I go right there.

["DoubleAction"]

TBT; The 226, chambered in the .40 S&W / 357sig is an excellent choice for the wide stack option for higher magazine capacities. While the 220 is a single stacking magazine, the grip will take up less space in the hand. I enjoy shooting both, especially since they also share the same holsters.

[TBT]

The P220 has the smaller grip?

["DoubleAction"]

TBT; The difference in the grip of the 220 and 226 is the magazine well, which is sized to accomodate either a single vertical stack or staggered wide stacking magazine. The 220 magazine is a single vertical stack, with a magazine well sized to fit with it's magazine. The 226 has a wider grip to accomodate the wider staggered stacked magazines. Some people with shorter fingers might have a problem reaching the trigger on the Sig 226. The installation of a short trigger is an easy task with the Sigs, if this proves to be a problem.

[Mountaineer]

TBT, I have a Sig P228 and a Nickle Sig P226 both in 9mm, and when I bought the first Sig, I thought to myself, I've finally made it to the top ;D CDNN has new Sig P226's and P229's in 40s&w and 357Sigs with Nite Sights and Hi Cap. Mags. with or without Rail for $599.99. They also have Used Sig P226, P228, and P229's Tutones for around $389 add $20 for hand select.