SIG P226 + Off Topic Colt SAA

[TBT]

Got my P226 from CDNN yesterday and well, I have a few questions. What is the slide to frame fit supposed to be like on a SIG? The used one I got is rather loose. You can “wobble” it from side to side on the frame.

Is this how SIG’s are made or is the one I got junk?

Can a good smith fix this or is the gun beyond that?

The finish is like new, that much is very impressive, but the frame to slide fit is simply “loose”.

Edited Thread to include Off Topic

[TBT]

Put two clips through the gun real quick and I love it. it's very accurate, but how is that possible with a lose frame to slide fit?

["DoubleAction"]

TBT; Mostly in part to the external barrel lockup, barrel cam, and slide bushing. Most all of my slide to frames are snug fit, but that's only part of the big picture in determining accuracy. Combat pistols are not designed to be too tight, but not sloppy either. It's a good idea to use a good lubricant on the rails to reduce premature wear on the alloy frame rails.
Is there any vertical slop on the slide to frame fit ? A good Smith can tighten up the fit, but he should be more than just familiar with the Sigs.

[TBT]

What do you been by "vertical"? I'm probably beign stupid in asking that question ...

["DoubleAction"]

TBT; If you can move the slide ( While in battery ) from side to side; That's Horizonal Play. If you can move it up and down; That's Vertical play. The Pistolsmith will tighten the fit for each, but it might not be necessary if the play is only minimal.

[TBT]

By in battery you mean with the slide locked back right? Well, with the slide back there is no play. When the slide is forward you can move it vertical and horizontal.

How do I know if it's something I need to have fixed?

["DoubleAction"]

TBT; In Battery is the postion of the slide when it is ready to be fired. In our case here; It is unloaded. I'll research some way to where we can measure this play to find if it's significant enough to seek the services of a pistolsmith. One thing we can do is check the hood to breech face clearance. The Sigs are highly noted for having high tolerances of fit with the barrel lockup.
With the slide removed, recoil spring and rod also removed, place the barrel in the lock up position and check for any daylight between the hood of the barrel and the breech face ( firing pin port ). If you see alot of daylight between two, you can take an automotive feeler gauge and measure this distance. Make sure the barrel's locking block is all the way up in the locking recess of the ejection port.

[TBT]

DA,

I see daylight on each side of the barrel looking down on the ejection port. Looks to be about 1/16 or so at the largest and then smaller gap toward the front sight. There is a slight bit of daylight in the right corner of the recess.

["DoubleAction"]

TBT; What about where the barrel meets with the rear area where the firing pin comes out at ( The Breech Face ). If you take the barrel and move it up into the slide you will see the rear part of the barrel above it's chamber rise against the breech face. That portion of the barrel will be the hood; In between the hood and the face where the firing pin protrudes will be a gap. That gap will be where you take a measurment to determine the fit of the barrels hood to the breech face.
Another thing to check is the barrels lockup with the slide; This can be done using just the slide and barrel. Place the barrel into the slide and check any play by trying to move the barrel while it is locked into the slide's port. A simple wiggle from front to rear movement of the barrel will be good, while hold the barrel by the lower cam on the barrel.

[TBT]

EDIT - There is a very little bit of daylight where the barrel meets with the rear area. You really have to move the slide around in front of a light to see it though, it's pretty small. When I am looking at this, I have the barrel firmly pushed up into place.

There is no play at all with barrel lock up with the slide. None, that thing fits in there tight.

[TMan]

As you probably know from some of my old posts, I have fought this problem with my Ruger P90. I can rock the slide to one side and put a .006" feeler gauge in there. I really thought this was the reason for my poor performance shooting the gun. So, one of the last times I shot it, I had my range officer, the one that is the best shot I've ever seen, shoot it. There were 5 rounds in the chamber and all 5 went into the bullseye.

Someone suggested that I put the slide into a padded vise, put a metal bar over it and tap on it. Another told me to send it back to Ruger.

The final advice, from someone I've learned to greatly expect was: "it always goes bang - if you tighten it up, it may not always go bang".

I think the most important thing is that the barrel isn't sloppy within the slide. Because of the way the barrel is captured within the slide on the Sigs I don't think the slide being a bit loose is going to effect your shooting that much. What I can't figure out is why the Beretta's with their sloppy barrel to slide fit at the muzzle have any kind of accuracy.

Thinking about it: all the serious stuff is contained within the slide. If you scale and think about a enormous gap between the slide and the base, when the gun went off the slide would leap into the air. How far would it leap before the bullet left the gun? Some gun I read about recently doesn't even start to unlock until the bullet has left the barrel.

My suggestion is to leave well enough alone. Do as I say and do - learn to love it. I have a soft spot in my heart for my Ruger P90. Of course DA thinks I have a soft spot in my head for the Beretta Stampede. ;D

Speaking of which, I didn't get the "colored" whatever of the Stampede. I got a Colt instead, but the weird thing is: the hammer, which is the only thing on my Rodeo that is colored, isn't colored on the Colt. Go figure! Oh, the Colt cost me twice as much (don't worry DA, my wife doesn't know how to shoot a gun. ;D), and has a 4lb trigger - I'll work on that.

["DoubleAction"]

TBT said:

EDIT - There is a very little bit of daylight where the barrel meets with the rear area. You really have to move the slide around in front of a light to see it though, it's pretty small. When I am looking at this, I have the barrel firmly pushed up into place.

There is no play at all with barrel lock up with the slide. None, that thing fits in there tight.

TBT; That's one big contributing factor for the accuracy your getting; Sig's are noted for this kind of barrel fit, even when purchasing another barrel, the drop in fit is tight. Good breech face to barrel hood checks out, and the lockup is solid. The bushing is probably just as well.


TMan; I forgot to tell you; Colt came out with a case colored single action a few years ago, the less expensive, cheaper version of the Single Action Army. It's called "The Cowboy"; Is there another ? The Colt Hammers and triggers will not be color case hardened, only the frames.

[TBT]

That's good new DA. I'm telling you, this thing does shoot where you point it.

So you guys don't think I need to worry about the slide wobble on the frame?

[TA]

If you do decide there is a problem, I have heard that CDNN is real good about making it right. Have your FFL Dealer call them and tell them about it. They will exchange it. Do it within 3 business days of the FFL receiving it just to be safe. Try to get them to pick up shipping both ways if you can.

[TMan]

DoubleAction said:

TMan; I forgot to tell you; Colt came out with a case colored single action a few years ago, the less expensive, cheaper version of the Single Action Army. It's called "The Cowboy"; Is there another ? The Colt Hammers and triggers will not be color case hardened, only the frames.

What a way to start the day: storms rolled through here last night so I didn't get much sleep, I have to go to the dentist, and now I find out this is case colored.

I should have known after reading about them having trouble starting the line up after all the good ole boys retired that something was amiss.

I just looked at their web site and they call it "colored case" vs color case hardened. Also, it wasn't exactly the one I wanted either. It is a P1658 and I really wanted the P1678, which has the 7 inch barrel. However, they spent time looking at all their suppliers, and like the Python, there were none in the system.

I could have bought two of the case colored Beretta's for what I paid for this, and they are better looking. It was just when I went to pick up my 9mm Kimber magazines he showed me the Colt. Well, this will be my last ever Colt. Just realized: "Colt" is a 4 letter word.

["DoubleAction"]

TMan; You shouldn't blame it on Colt; They made life easier for the buyers who wanted a Colt but did not want to shell out all the money for the Single Action Army. The Cowboy is to the S.A.A. as the King Cobra was to the Python, and I knew quite a few happy King Cobra owners. Look at it this way; Many famous Gunslingers and Lawmen of the old west carried the Colt Single Action Revolvers. Where could you possibily begin to explain to your friends how Beretta entered the picture ? ;D Now we can begin shopping for a good leather rig for your new Colt. One other thing I forgot to tell you; Colt has also been known to use MIM parts in some of their newer production guns.

[TMan]

DA, I'm confused. Is the "Cowboy" version what is currently being offered by Colt? They call this the "Single Action Army"; from your first post I assumed that all the ones they call the Single Action Army in their catalog now are the "Cowboy" version. I can't find what I did with the invoice so I don't know exactly what I paid for it, but it was over $1,000, and he told his wife to give me the "sale price". (Oh, I trust him implicitly.)

Is there any way to tell a MIM part by looking at it? This months American Gunsmith has an article about doing a trigger job on the Browning Hi-Power. They mention that the factory sear is a casting and would not hold its edge after stoning. I do have the new hammer and sear for the BHP, and I have the adapter for the fixture. I just haven't gotton around to putting them in yet. I did stone the trigger/sear on the Ruger Blackhawk, and it took me around an hour. I think I may not have been using enough pressure, but I was using ceramic stones, and didn't want to mess up. I still have more polishing work to do on it before putting it back together again.

["DoubleAction"]

TMan; The Colt Single Action Army is just that, nothing else. The Cowboy is a less expensive version of the original. The Original Colt Single Action Army has been offered through Colt's Custom Shop for over ten years that I know of. If your Colt is a Cowboy model, it should be mentioned somewhere on the gun, paperwork, and box.
Can I inquire as to the stamping on the Barrel and Frame, and the description on the box label?

["DoubleAction"]

TMan; I went to www.colt.com and found your model P1658. According to the description; Your Colt has a color case hardened frame and true to the traditional Colt Single Action Army Revolver. The model number listings will have only case color but I think it is to abbreviate the Color Case Hardened Frame. The only Colt single action army I have seen with the Color Case frames are those of the Colt Cowboy; Which I could not find on the current Colt Listings.

In my book, a congradulations are in order for you TMan, and I'm looking forward to some photos of this gun in our gallery.
I do hope Colt has discontinued the Cowboy Model; It's just not part of the traditional method by which Colt has been building the Single Action Army.

[TBT]

What is the trigger pull like on a single action army and the stampeed?