DAO Pistol vs DAO Revolver for self-defense

[TMan]

Probably everyone know this, but it never dawned on me until last night. I was watching a movie on TV and reading a book. I don't remember what the movie was because the book was more interesting. What I do remember was that a person pulled a revolver, pointed it at a person and cocked the hammer. After some dialog, they lowered the hammer. I remember that it was obviously a DA revolver, but not a DAO revolver. Hollywood!

I've been thinking lately that the S&W 340PD is likely the best self-defense weapon on the market today because of its lightness, and stopping power, and the fact the hammer isn't exposed to snag any clothing. My dealer told me that she sells a lot of them, so other people must think so too.

For this discussion I'll assert that a DAO pistol, or a SA that is carried cocked with the safety on, is equivalent. The DAO may have a little edge because there is that thumb movement to flick-off the safety on the SA.

If I'm at close quarters pointing a gun at a 6'6" 300 lb ape that tells me he is going to beat me to death and then have his way with my wife, and I believe him, what happens if he grabs my gun?

In the case of the pistol, no matter how hard a grip he has on the gun, I can still put one round in him. It is likely that the gun will jam at that point because he slowed down the slide.

In the case of the revolver, if he grabs it and prevents the cylinder from turning, I can't shoot him, and he is likely to pull the gun out of my hand and shoot me with it.

There are probably more realistic scenarios that you can think of, but I think I got my point across. I've been thinking lately that a DAO revolver is better for self-defense because it doesn't have that jamming feature so common with pistols, but I'm re-thinking my position. (I haven't ordered the S&W, my .38 Special that weighs twice as much hurts me enough).

My other, slightly related, thought is that the smaller the gun is, the less likely someone could take it away from me. To scale: a revolver with a 10" barrel would be easy for someone to grab and point away from themselves while I pulled the trigger vs. a revolver with a 1" barrel.

Perhaps my derringer is a better weapon than I thought, but I'm not comfortable carrying it cocked with the safety on. It would be too easy pulling it out of the holster in a stressful situation to screw up and shoot myself. (I carry with .410 ga 000 shot, which amounts to three balls from each chamber. Not sure if this is the best for self defense, but I seriously doubt that all three balls would enter through the same hole.)

Any thoughts?

["DoubleAction"]

TMan; My preference in barrel length for a defensive gun is a maximum of 4" inches, on the average. I have picked up six or five inch barrels in the heat of reacting to a possible threat. For carry, the S&W J frame centinniels, or those with internal hammers, make for rapid deployment when needed. The smaller revolvers fit into my own catagory of having something in case it's needed. If you think you might be jumped, it might be wise to consider having a blade somewhere on your person.
I agree that some manual safeties might prevent someone else from immediately using a gun, they had just grabbed off another. The same thing has happened to many police officers, who had their own duty weapons used on them during a struggle.

[vito]

I have a lot more confidence in my S&W 640 (heavier than the 340, still a handfull to fire with 357 mag HP ammo, but a better feel than the lightweights in my opinion)than in any semi-auto. I just can't realistically imagine a situation in which I could not get one round off, unless the attack is so sudden and unexpected that I never even get to pull out my gun (in which case it would not matter what gun it is). I don't think I would rely upon the 640 if my opponent was more than about 6 feet away, but that is the distance I believe is most likely for a self defense situation. And with a quality revolver like the S&W 640, you know for sure it will go bang when you pull the trigger.

[TMan]

Vito, I strongly agree with you if the person was 6 feet away. My scenario was with someone in your face. The further away the person is, the more comfortable I would be with a revolver with a long barrel. However, at close quarters I see the advantage of the reliability of the revolver, but I see the disadvantage if I was to hesitate for a split second, they could have their hand over the top of my revolver and I couldn't shoot.

Personally, my greatest exposures are: 1) driving the Z8 without the hardtop. 2) in a parking garage. 3) pulling into my own garage (we have had neighborhood incidents of people coming into the garage after you. I've told my wife to always close the garage door before getting out of the car, but it is like telling her anything else. )

So when I think about these 3 scenarios, in each case I'm dealing with someone close. In the first case, I might be able to get away in the Z8 without getting shot, but there is a little problem: I know I'd be hitting the gas pedal hard, and the car has this nasty little thing about cutting power to the rear wheels when they start to spin. It almost feels like the car is hesitating. It has happened to me a couple of times. If I thought to reach over and turn DSC off, but it being so light and having 396hp, I'd just be spinning the rear wheels.

I've thought about replacing my Taurus 85 with the S&W 340PD, but just shooting my normal .38 Special rounds in the 340 would jump the recoil energy from 7.8, which I find uncomfortable in that small gun, to 11.4 with the S&W.

I doubt if I would be comfortable carrying a gun that I hadn't shot enough with the ammo I was carrying so I knew I could trust it. The other thing is that in a self-defense situation I don't know if I could trust my sub-conscious to not hesitate in pulling the trigger knowing that I was going to get a big recoil (about 28 ft-lbs with .357 Mag in the 340). If you hesitate, you can be dead, and I'm very doubtful if my sub-conscious is any brighter than my conscious. I could be in big trouble.

["DoubleAction"]

If someone is close enough to grab a gun, the less length on the barrel is better. Grabbing a gun from a person's grip, while his finger is inside the trigger guard, is a simple manuver of reaching up with the left hand( If the person is right hand strong), grabbing the barrel while deflecting the muzzle, and twisting the barrel in the direction of the one holding the gun. If his finger is stilll in the trigger guard it can become broken or dislocated.

Dummy or toy guns are good training aids to practice this method with.

[TMan]

admin said:

... grabbing the barrel while deflecting the muzzle, and twisting the barrel in the direction of the one holding the gun. If his finger is stilll in the trigger guard it can become broken or dislocated.

OK DA, I've read this 4 times and I still don't get it. I tried it on myself, and it seems like I would want to twist the gun away from the person. Going toward them bends their wrist in, going the other way causes the fingers and wrist to go opposite to the direction they normally bend. Am I missing something about the twisting part?

This seems like a move that you would want to get down pat prior to doing it. Otherwise, it is likely that you would only do it wrong once.

[5ontarget]

Tman,

I think you'd have problems with both revolvers and semiautos if they were grabbed. As you said, the revolver cylinder could be stopped, but a semiauto could be pushed out of battery, and then it won't fire either.
I think a revolver would be a better close range gun than a semiauto.

Have you looked at some of the small Ruger revolvers. I know you really like S&W, but there are a couple of little rugers that may fit the bill. A bit heavier, but that may be a good thing shooting a .357, or a .38 +p+. You also won't have to worry about over stressing the frame like some of the ultralight S&W's

[MLB]

Nobody would grab the business end of a blade either...

Regarding the "twisting" discussion, I inferred that the muzzle would be twisted down and towards the assailant, rather than sideways.

["DoubleAction"]

tman said:

admin said:

... grabbing the barrel while deflecting the muzzle, and twisting the barrel in the direction of the one holding the gun. If his finger is stilll in the trigger guard it can become broken or dislocated.

OK DA, I've read this 4 times and I still don't get it. I tried it on myself, and it seems like I would want to twist the gun away from the person. Going toward them bends their wrist in, going the other way causes the fingers and wrist to go opposite to the direction they normally bend. Am I missing something about the twisting part?

This seems like a move that you would want to get down pat prior to doing it. Otherwise, it is likely that you would only do it wrong once.

TMan; Without an illustration, I expected a question. You want to deflect, while grabbing, the muzzle toward back of the hand of the person holding the gun, putting pressure against the oppostite side of the inside of the hand and wrist. If they are holding the gn in their right hand, it is better done by using the left hand or the one closer to the muzzle. Practice does improve one's speed but it's better done using another person tp hold the gun; Just be careful not to break your assistant's finger while performing this.
It's also good to know that an attacker might use this same method to incapacitate one's strong hand at close distances.

[TMan]

5ontarget said:

...but a semiauto could be pushed out of battery, and then it won't fire either. ...

Oh wow, I never thought of that. I think I need a self-defense course. On the other hand, I could probably sell all my guns and hire a body guard for when I'm going out.

Of course with guns you get to practice and I doubt practice would be much fun with a body guard. Wait!!! It doesn't have to be a male body guard. But with a female body guard I'd need 24 hour protection - from my wife. ;D

I'm beginning to think the best self-defense gun is that little derringer with .410 ga 000 shot, but of course you only get two chances.

[MLB]

Aren't those little buggers single-action? I'd be a bit uncomfortable with a cocked load of buckshot in my pocket in a gun with not even a trigger guard. Safety or not.

I suppose I should do my homework and go look up the review...

[TMan]

mlb said:

Aren't those little buggers single-action? ...

Yes, they are single action, but drawing out of the holster and cocking it is a simple act. I've practiced with having it loaded with snap-caps. I don't carry it cocked. Now when I was younger, I would have been much more concerned about the possibility of the gun going of in such close proximity, but I can't remember why.

I have a Snake Slayer on order, but a lot of people have them on order. The Snake Slayer allows you to use 3" shells vs 2 1/2", and it has longer grips, so it should fit my hand better.

[somery]

5ontarget said:

but a semiauto could be pushed out of battery, and then it won't fire either.

im sure if you were in the attack mode you could depend on yourself to think. true you get once chance, but the slide takes a little effort to push/pull back especially if you don't have those grab hash marks on the front of the barrel. hopefully instinct would tell you even if they were wasting time on your slide movement instead of redirecting barrel aim, you could pull the gun back to keep it in battery and get a round in his hand, just as long as your gun defending other hand is out of the way when the gun goes off. if you have a gun drawn and hes fighting for yours you have the advantage....keep your confidence....not that i would know anything...but i came from cops and robbers childhood....

modified to add: also you could keep your concealed gun concealed, use all of your force to throw them down get back then draw....if that scenario is possible or run around the car to get safe distance...if youre in your car and the hardtop is down and you use your gun there will be blood spill...at that close a range it would be dangerous to pull a gun, because he will have the advantage of being over you i would think....but this is good thinking in case of need....

[TMan]

Somey, I would be very compliant and would be out of the car before pulling my gun. If he gets into the car and puts his gun away, he drives off. If he keeps the gun on me, i.e. he is more interested in me than the car, I'm going to have to act i.e. he doesn't want any witnesses left.

With the semi-automatic: remember when racking the slide the barrel moves backwards a short distance with the slide. My thoughts are to hit the pistol directly with the palm of my hand driving the pistol backwards and out of battery. Then by gripping and twisting remove the weapon. If the person really knows what they are doing, I won't be close enough to their gun to do anything. This is a risky move, and I'd only do it if I thought I was going to get shot anyhow. My first defense is to be totally compliant, but that doesn't always work anymore.

I don't carry in the car for the purpose of defending myself; I carry for the peace of mind and comfort that it gives me.

[atc26]

Actually I don't think that a choice between DAO revolvers or pistols is much more than personal preference. Taking time to cock and/or take careful aim during a close encounter surrenders the advantage. I was trained, and absolutely agree, that you just don’t hand an assailant your weapon.

I think that the most important factor is familiarity with one’s weapon of choice (including its shortcomings) and practicing weapon retention techniques. Turning one’s body toward an assailant, using the free hand to push him back if possible, and shooting from a lower angle near the holster while keeping the weapon out of his reach might be a better ticket.

When things get that bad … it ain’t over ‘till its over.