S&W 686-1 Lockup Problem

[TMan]

I had a strange problem that occurred several times this morning while shooting my pre-owned 686. It first happened in DA mode, and then in SA mode. Suddenly the gun would just lockup and you couldn't pull the trigger back. Not only that you couldn't swing the cylinder out either.

I've shot maybe 400 rounds through this of .38 Special, but after the joys of cleaning, I decided today to shoot .357 Magnum. This thing has a 4 inch barrel, and I was running late so I was shooting faster than I normally do. It was hot, I mean the gun not the weather, which is always hot in August - this is Texas. (Why does the President vacation here in August? The Democrats would just say it is because he isn't very bright).

Anyone have any idea what could be going on, what I should look for? I've never completely pulled this gun apart. I never had to because it has such a great trigger.

["DoubleAction"]

TMan; Check the cylinder yoke/crane retention screw, which is mounted on the right side of the frame. When the screw backs out, it causes alot of slop in the cylinder.

[TMan]

DA, I checked and the screw is tight. Also, the crane fit when the cylinder is open is also fairly tight, as tight as my Taurus 608. When I said "lockup" I probably picked the wrong term because lockup is normally meant as a good thing with the cylinder locked and ready to fire. Freeze-up would probably be a more accurate term.

I had a similar problem once when I had crud under the ejector so it wasn't seating all the way, which meant the cartridges weren't going all the way in and it hung everything up.

However this is different. I think it happened 3 times, but in each case it was not on the first shot.

This gun has the firing pin that is part of the hammer and pivots up and down. I'm wondering if it could have locked up somehow. I'm thinking more along the lines that it is something wrong internally. I'm wondering if this was the reason the previous owner got rid of it. Buying a pre-owned gun from a gun shop is like buying a pre-owned car from a used car lot: you don't know who the previous owner was and what's under the hood.

Since this is not one of my defensive weapons, it isn't too critical, but I hate having something that isn't working right. It scared me because I couldn't unload it, and taking it home in that condition would have been nerve-wracking. I didn't realize at the time that the hammer was over a previously fired round vs. a live round, but I've never been the sharpest knife in the drawer.

I don't want to put it on the Jennings shelf because I've really enjoyed the light trigger shooting .38 Specials in SA mode. Actually, I was shooting DA mode this morning when the problem showed up. I then switched to SA mode.

[Mountaineer]

TMan, I saw this happen once. The ejector rod had backed out a little bit and it tied the cylinder up.

[TMan]

mountaineer said:

TMan, I saw this happen once. The ejector rod had backed out a little bit and it tied the cylinder up.

Oh, Oh, I bet you hit the nail on the head. The last time I gave this gun a through cleaning, I removed the ejector rod.

Now what did I do with that little tool.

Like Pogo used to say: "I've found the enemy and it is us."

Thank you very much.

["DoubleAction"]

Although Smith & Wesson attempted the resolve the problem of the ejector rod backing out, by making it a left hand thread some years ago, it still happens. My brother called me with the same problem he was having on one of his newer S&W revolvers one day.

[TMan]

Well, I was positive that was the problem because I had removed the ejector and put it back in. However, when I checked, it was good and tight. Brings to mind a childhood saying about only fools being positive.

I took it to the range yesterday and only once was there an ever so slight catch. Now I'm wondering if it was ammo sensitive, I was using WWB this time.

["DoubleAction"]

TMan; I'm sure you have already checked underneath the ejector star for any oil; Right? When Mountaineer told you of the ejector rod, did you find your's to be loose?

[TMan]

Yes I checked, and there was a little oil, which I removed. The ejector was tight.

DA, I don't clean everytime I shoot. I usually put 200 to 300 rounds through a gun before I clean it, or if it looks dirty, or if I'm putting it into storage. I'm wondering if I shot any .38 Specials, and then the .357 Magnum didn't go all the way into the cylinder. However, when I shot it this week, it worked okay with the exception of the little catch once.

["DoubleAction"]

TMan; When your at the range it's a good idea to keep a check on any oil or crud that might become lodged between the cylinder and ejector star. Keep that area clean and dry.

[TMan]

Speaking of the ejector star: I don't remember which gun it was, but one gun I was looking at didn't have the two pins that go through the star. The tips of the star were cut at an angle. I don't know if it is better, or if it is just a money saving thing.

["DoubleAction"]

TMan; At one time I could lay all my handguns out on my work table, but with all the cleaning stuff, tools, and extra parts laying around, I usually only take out two or three at a time. I also have more guns now.
The Stars on my Colts are all cut straight; On my older S&W revolvers the stars are also cut straight, but on my later model S&Ws the stars are cut on an angle for the two on each side, with the top and bottom cut straight. I really don't know the reasoning for this, unless it is mean't for a guide when the star is reassembled to the cylinder after disassembly, to insure the star is properly aligned as it was from the factory. I may be wrong about this, but it's a guess anyway.

[TMan]

I had forgotten about this problem, and I took the gun for the big ranch shoot-out last week. I wanted to demonstrate to my son how much better it was than his Ruger, and to also show how the recoil with it is worse than with the Taurus.

After a few rounds it locked up again. So it went into the trunk and we shot other stuff.

Yesterday I had a lot of time at the range because I was Range Officer. I took the 686, and quickly had the problem. I showed it to one of the other guys there and we worked on it for awhile. He thought that perhaps the cylinders had crud and one round was not seating all the way.

We did notice that the trigger was in the same position whether or not there was a failure, which kind of ruled out internal failure to me. Remember that I can shoot 38 Specials with no problem. Also, when it fails, you can't open the cylinder.

I then compared the brass of a fired round and an unfired round. You could easily see that the rim had expanded when it fired. Interesting! I didn't have any 38 Special rounds, but I'd be willing to bet the brass doesn't expand as much.

So looking at the area between the rim and the frame, it looked like there was something between the two.

Today I took the fired brass, loaded it into the cylinder, and promptly had the problem. So much for it being caused by heat. I then tried to slip a .001 feeler gauge between the two, and it would go through. Looking closely at the frame I could see a little burr right next to the hole for the firing pin. Using a small stone, I quickly removed the burr, reloaded the cylinder and tried it. No more failure. Mystery solved - gun fixed.

["DoubleAction"]

TMan; You stumped us for sure on this one; On the other hand, if it had been Fobos, he would have provided us with some excellent illustrated images. We were so close in solving this, it makes me cry out in agonizing shame. The hole is where the cylinder locks ups in the frame from the star wheel; no cigar on this one.

[TMan]

Sorry DA, I guess I wasn't clear enough in what I wrote. The hole is the one that the firing pin comes through. You are right about the pictures. I don't have the close up photography skills some of the others on this forum.

Good grief, I'm not awake yet. I should have said that I DON"T HAVE THE PHOTOGRAPHIC EQUIPMENT. ;D

["DoubleAction"]

All which matters is you hopefully found out your problem and you won't be bothered again by it. A S&W 686 should be functionally reliable, as with most all S&W revolvers, but every now and then, no matter how much the factory works on making these guns better, something mysterious might arise.
I have a S&W 29 Classic which has been back to the factory twice, but that has no bearing on my high opinion of these guns.