PPS

[MLB]

I stopped into the gun shop yesterday to see if they had any of those new Walther PPS in for me to fondle. "You mean a ppk?" Ugh.

Fortunately, another counter guy came by and said that they did have one, but it's not for sale. Turns out he bought the first one that they could get. He did get it out from the back room for me to inspect though.

It certainly is slim. I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't uncomfortable in the hand, perhaps due to the replacable backstraps. While the barrel axis does seem high relative to the trigger, the handgun sits low in the hand and doesn't feel "top-heavy" to me.

After asking him if he minded me dry firing it, I was surprised at the trigger pull. I suppose after carrying a ppk/s anything would feel light, but the glock-like partially cocked striker was nice. A small amount of take up (it has that goofy trigger tounge thingy too), constant pull, small amount of stacking at the end, and click.

I didn't think to check the reset. There was probably some overtravel too, I don't remember.

This was a new handgun. The owner didn't even get a chance to fire it yet. My P99 trigger got better with time. This one has a good start.

Below is a pic of a similar PPS - First Edition in case that someone posted at waltherforums

[TMan]

My brother and his family came down for the Giants-Cowboy game (being Cowboy fans), and I took them to Cabela's on Saturday. They are more into fishing, so I left them to their devices (or is it vices?) and went looking at guns.

They had the Walther PPS First Edition for $599. It is a good looking gun. I doubt if I'd like the regular version, but the pictures of the First Edition don't do it justice.

Good thing I never buy a gun based on its looks or it would have come home with me. (Note to new forum members: I'm lying - I have bought guns based on their looks.)

What surprised me about it was how thin it was, and it seemed much heavier than it looked.

[MLB]

Funny you should comment on the looks. The consensus at the Walther Forum is that most are waiting for the standard edition to come out. Perhaps it's just the price difference, but I got the impression that most liked the plain black better than the "silvery" frame.

I also understand that the standard edition will come with a plain plastic box, and only 2 mags instead of the 3 shown.

[MLB]

A review of the PPS I came across:

gunblast.com/Walther-PPS.htm

[TMan]

MLB, you dog, you!!! You have me interested in another gun. I keep thinking about how nicely it fit in my hand and the fact that it was so different than other guns that I've shot.

My gun plan list currently only has one gun on it: the Taurus 24/7 OSS, which is not yet available. Based on Taurus's availablility of their 1911 after their announcement date I could die of old age before the OSS is available.

I never bought the P99, and I doubt if I will, but this one really interests me.

[MLB]

Note to the uninitiated; interesting TMan in a handgun is nearly as difficult as interesting a bear in a NY strip steak.

The 40 caliber versions should become available in a month or so if you'd be more inclined towards that flavor. I figure you for the 9mm version though.

I think it would be a fine handgun, but at $600 or so, you have lots of choices.

[TMan]

mlb said:

... but at $600 or so, you have lots of choices.

What is there that I don't have? ;D

Bear -> NY Strip Steak? Now if you said: Bear -> Honey or Bear -> Blueberries or Bear -> Ants or even Bear -> Salmon.

Speaking of bears: I've heard that the scientists think that bears are able to see some amount of color because when they are eating blueberries they ignore those that aren't ripe. (Didn't I mention this before?)

Back to the PPS: I only want it if I can get the First Edition, and MLB you are correct, of course, I want it in 9mm.

[TMan]

Becky came through for me: got one for $560, which was $105 below MSRP, and $40 below Cabela's price.

The case supplied with the pistol has PPS in big letters on the outside, and is quite impressive. Everything fit well in the box with the Masterlock (wonder how many lives are saved each year by forcing the manufacturers to include these) being behind the foam in the cover.

What was a pleasant surprise was the wrapper around instruction manual; It was a target that was fired at 10M. I don't know how many rounds, but the center was blown out of it.

This is a striker-fired pistol that, like a Glock, is partially cocked by operating the slide. When in this condition, there is a red pin that protrudes from the rear of the slide. As you pull the trigger the pin comes out further and further. (I'm thinking that after shooting this pistol I may start liking my modified Glock).

The instruction manual supplied with this pistol, if not the best, is certainly one of the best that I've ever seen.

Naturally, there has to be a gotcha. With this gun it is that the backstrap has to be removed in order to field-strip the pistol.

I foresee the dialog a couple of years from now: "I can't get this stupid PPS apart." Reply: "TMan, you idiot, I bet you forgot to remove the backstrap."

Comparing the pistol to my other Walther's: I don't like it nearly as well as I do the P5. However, they were designed and built by different people. Hey, they are both Walther's right? Yes, but the company today has different employees than those of old. Chrysler makes something called a "Charger", but it is nothing like the Charger I once owned.

I'll let you know my impressions after shooting it. (Pssst, it sure looks good - much better than the Kel-tec PF-9).

[MLB]

Ah of course, salmon would have been the right creature. The NY Strip must be a personal bias. Regardless, I wouldn't advise carrying around raw steaks in your hikes through the woods...

Fortunately for me in this case, engineers are generally known to have poor writing skills. So my passible prose usually clears the low bar that is set. It's too bad since good communication, especially in a technical field, makes life run so much easier.

I wonder what makes them say that many animals can't see color. Must have been based on experimental (as opposed to biological) evidence.

[MLB]

Ack! another one on my conscience. Hope it turns out to be a good one. Looking forward to your review.

Regarding the backstrap; it's Walther's answer to the gun lock. Removing the backstrap decocks it and makes the firearm inoperable. Better than a keyhole in the frame I guess.

[TMan]

So why did I bother to read the manual? Turns out that you don't need to remove the backstrap - just pull the trigger. Removing the backstrap decocks the gun, which allows you to remove the slide.

I guess that the Walther people heard the criticism of the Glock users on having to pull the trigger in order to remove the slide.

It turns out that I'm not overly fond of the backstrap. It has a little plastic projection that has to go into the receptacle in the frame. You have to line up the marks on the frame with the marks on the backstrap and then with a little bit of wiggling it moves up into position. It seems rather cheesy for such a well built firearm.

Another thing I noticed is that the rail on the right side extends all the way down the side. It fits tightly.

[MLB]

I'm a little concerned that "a little plastic projection" breaking off could leave you with an inoperable firearm. Does this seem likely to you TMan?

[TMan]

Well, I think it would most likely happen when trying to install the backstrap. It would be quite obvious that the gun would not cock after that. I would think if it broke off during the time the backstop was in place, it would be stuck in there and would not decock when you removed the backstop.

I won't be removing the backstop in the future. I am able to retract the slide and check to make sure there isn't a round in the chamber and then pull the trigger.

I don't know if I mentioned it or not, but one time with one of the 22 rifles that has the tube feed, I put in 10 rounds and then let my buddy shoot it. I was talking to the range officer. After he finished, he left the lever down (it was lever action). I looked in there - no bullets, closed the lever and put the "empty" gun in the case. I then went down and picked up the target. Where he shot there were only 5 holes. I asked him how many rounds he shot and he said 5. Slight flaw in the way a lever action rifle works. Just because you don't see a round in the chamber doesn't mean it isn't loaded. Good thing I didn't hit the trigger when I was putting it in the case. Not a lesson that I'll likely forget.

I do understand peoples concern with the need to pull the trigger in order to field strip. However, you can learn to double-check, and you can learn that with a lever action that you need to flip the lever a few times to ensure it is empty.

[MLB]

Too bad it doesn't have a decocker. I suppose that would make for redundant parts though.

In reality, pulling the trigger to field strip a firearm is done safely many times every day considering the number of Glocks in service. It's just a pet peeve.

[TMan]

I took it to the range today. I was very impressed. It is shooting a little to the left, but that shouldn't really be much of a problem since the rear sight is adjustable for windage (hammer and punch method).

It was flawless, but there was one little negative - the trigger was a little rough on my finger. However, in spite of the small size and light weight the recoil was not noticable (unlike the Kel-tec PF-9, and the S&W 360PD - we won't go there. ;D )

I did notice that my accuracy dropped with the small magazine because my little finger was sliding underneath the magazine while I was shooting. (It comes with 3 magazines of different sizes).

On a scale of 1 to 10 for striker-fired pistols, I'd give this gun a 9. If I hadn't spent my life as a white-collar worker, my fingers might be rougher and I wouldn't have subracted for the trigger.

Modified to add:

Forgot to mention that on the picture MLB posted above, there is a little cut-out in front of the barrel. I wondered what it was for. It contains two little packages of silica-gel.

[TBT]

My search for a pocket pistol has lead me to this thread Tman.

So you like this weapon and would recommend it? Shootable?

I've never owned nor shot a Walther so I'm not even sure what the general consensus is regarding their overall quality of product.

This gun looks very interesting.

[TMan]

TBT, yes I wouldn't certainly recommend it. I haven't shot it a whole lot because it has worked flawlessly. The STI LS9, on the other hand, gave me quite a bit of trouble, but has shot the last 100 rounds without a failure. I was shooting the LS9 today, and I noticed a couple of times that there was a slight hesitation before going into battery. Since there have been 250 or 300 rounds since I last cleaned it, I figure it must be due a cleaning.

Thinking of the small pistols that I have: the Wilson Combat ADP is another one that I would recommend even though mine had a defect and had to go back to the manufacturer to get the trigger bar replaced.

Another gun that I don't have (yes, MLB there are such things ;D ), is the Springfield EMP. One of Becky's church elders has one and was telling me how great it was. He has had zero problems with his.

Funny how only a few years ago I wondered why anyone would buy a revolver. Now I wonder why anyone would buy a semi-auto for concealed carry. For shooting, now that is another story: I shoot semi-auto's roughly 90% of the time.

If you are thinking of concealed carry with a semi-auto, another one that you should consider is the sub-compact of the XD.

I took the XD to the range today and we both shot it. I think Ed shot 15 rounds, which mean that I shot 35 rounds and there were only 3 rounds outside the center ring. Putting the Springer Precision sear and spring kit made a BIG difference in the accuracy. I now shoot it as well as I do the 1911's (with the exception of the long-slide STI Targetmaster).

As far as the Walther brand is concerned. I've been very pleased with every Walther that I've owned with the exception of the P22. I think my favorite is the Walther P5 (surplus). One day as RO I took a bunch of guns that one of the members was interested in and wanted to shoot. Although the P5 wasn't on the list, I took it too and let him shoot it. When he was all done, he looked at me and said: "I hope I don't hurt your feelings, but that P5 was the best of the lot." I didn't take the Hi-Point. If you pull a Sig P210, a S&W 952...etc. out of your bag and then a Hi-Point, people look at you like - are you insane? (I do like the Hi-Point by the way).

Was I any help?

[TBT]

You're always helpful my man. Haha.

The Wilson ADP is larger isn't it? I'v owned several XD's. The Sub compact is still too large for pocket carry. That is a beefy little gun. For regular carry I have my Glock 19. What I'm looking for is an additional candidate that would work in a pocket when the 19 isn't optimal. So far I've considered the SW 442, M&P340, 640, as well as the SP101 from Ruger.

I like the revolvers for pocket carry but in the case of the 442 I'm not a big fan of the caliber and capacity. The other ones it's still only five rounds and I don't really think that a revolver will carry as well in the pocket as a nice little flat auto.

[TMan]

If you think I'm going to go dig them out to compare the sizes... If I felt ambitious, I'd get off my lazy butt and go upstairs and work on the SR-9. Instead I sit here in my rocking chair with my laptop. ;D

According to Wilson web-site:

Caliber 9 mm
Magazine Capacity 10 rd.
Barrel Length 3.9"
Overall Length 6.3"
Sight Radius 5.6"
Height 4.2"
Width 1.2"
Weight Empty 16.6 oz.
Weight Loaded 23.0 oz.

Although I don't know how they can give a loaded weight without specifying the type of ammo being used.

And from Walther-USA:

Model-: PPS
Caliber-: 9mm
Length: 6.3"
Height: 4.4"
Overall Width/Width without slidestop lever and takedown buttons: 1.04"/.91"
Barrel Length: 3.2"
Sight Radius: 5.4"
Weight (without Mag): 19.4 oz.
Standard Magazine Weight: 1.9 oz.
Action: Striker Fire Action, Pre-Cocked
Trigger Pull: 6.1 lbs.
Frame: Black Polymer

I like the "Striker Fire Action, Pre-Cocked" remark. I've kind of come to the conclusion that there are basically two types of striker-fired actions. There is the type that is basically the Mauser rifle action where the striker is being held in a cocked position and then being released, and then there is the type that when you pull the trigger, you are actually pulling the striker back against its spring before releasing it.

If you look at the rear of some of the striker fired pistols, you can see a pin protruding. As you pull the trigger, you can see the pin moving towards you as you compress the striker spring and then it is released. However, this isn't foolproof. On my XD, you could see the pin move towards you, but it was because of the positive action of the engagement. After putting in the Springer Precision sear, this movement is not noticeable.

So pistols like the Glock and Ruger SR-9 are never going to have as good a feel to them as a pistol like the XD. It always amazed me that even though the XD had a heavy pull, it broke clean and I shot it better than the Glock until I finished the modifications to the Glock. Now with the modification to the XD, the pull is much lighter and I'm back to shooting it as well as the Glock or any of my 1911's. It is one sweet pistol.

Another thing about the SR-9/Glock type is that with the SR-9 I'm getting a very gritty feeling in the trigger as the striker is being pulled backward. The spring is inside the striker and is rubbing against it, and who knows what else is rubbing inside.

So when they say striker-fired, beware!!! And I still can't figure out how this connector thing works on the Glock/SR-9 as stated in my other thread. Unfortunately, I don't have any of the heavier connectors to make the physical comparisons to get a better idea.

[TBT]

Wow. The ADP is a lot smaller than I thought. Looking at it, it looks like a Glock model 19-type size weapon. In pictures anyway. It would be an option for a larger pocket piece, indeed.

I've owned several XD's in various sizes including the XD9sc. While smallish, it's still very blocky and heavy (it feels a lot heavier than it's listed weight to me). I think the XD lineup is chalk full of fine weapons and they do have a nice trigger although not being a connoisseur of fine triggers, I don't notice any practical difference between the stock XD trigger and my stock 19 trigger. The 19 is a little heavier but it's a clean break and very easy to master.

I never warmed to them because of how top heavy the guns are. They just seemed to have poor handling characteristics. I never felt comfortable with them.

Maybe I just need to suck it up and pick up a good ole' 38 in +p capability and call it a day.