|
|
Post by TA on Nov 7, 2007 19:05:50 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by TMan on Nov 7, 2007 19:44:27 GMT -5
The H&P P30 comes with three backstraps and 3 sets of side panels to fit the individual's hands. So, if I order a P250 and it doesn't fit, I have to order...  Also, looking at the detailed strip, I didn't see him remove a sear. What is with that? It looks like the P250 would be great for a police force where you needed to match the pistol to an individual's hand. (I've always felt that the H&K USP was too big for my hand). I don't think I'll be ordering a P250 any time soon. |
|
|
|
Post by TA on Nov 8, 2007 9:48:29 GMT -5
The sear must be a real chore to remove and replace. Maybe that is why they accidently, on purpose left that little tidbit out.
Ethan is one of their top design engineers. Although very young, he has a few milestones already. He is the designer for the Short Reset Trigger.
|
|
|
|
Post by TBT on Nov 21, 2007 21:59:45 GMT -5
This actually looks pretty interesting to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by "DoubleAction" on Nov 22, 2007 3:02:24 GMT -5
I finally installed another memory stick in my computer and went from dial up to DSL, which explains my belated response.
Since I am among those who have already acquired more Sig Sauers than I can possibly shoot or carry, in all the calibers which I enjoy the most, and doubt that I'll ever live to wear any out from use, I can only hope that a newer generation of Sig Sauer owners will find this pistol to fit with their own personal requirements in what appears to be an integrated multi use pistol system.
Adding to what already appears to be a the start of a swiss army knife of pistols; maybe a modular grip frame to accept scope and shoulder stock accessories, with extended sound suppressor, and extended magazine. I can almost hear the Man From Uncle Theme.
|
|
|
|
Post by TBT on Dec 1, 2007 10:55:58 GMT -5
The bore axis on SIGS are a little high, or at least, with my 226 the muzzle flip seemed a little much. If it wasn't for that, I would be all over this. I might still pick one of these up though. For some reason this looks like a really cool concept.
|
|
|
|
Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 1, 2007 13:22:58 GMT -5
The bore axis on SIGS are a little high, or at least, with my 226 the muzzle flip seemed a little much. If it wasn't for that, I would be all over this. I might still pick one of these up though. For some reason this looks like a really cool concept. TBT; The increased muzzle flip can be adjusted through the burn rate of the powder in the cartridge. A slow burning powder will reach it's peak near the muzzle, where a faster burning powder will reach it's peak mid way through the bore. The slower burn rates are what you would find in magnums of higher velocities. If you notice an excessive muzzle flip, you might also notice excessive muzzle flash. This is what I have found from using different cartridges, meant for different applications. The best pistol ammunition I have found are those cartridges from Georgia Arms; their powder is at the right burn rate for all my pistols. |
|
|
|
Post by TBT on Dec 1, 2007 19:26:30 GMT -5
So you don't have an issue with muzzle flip in your SIG firearms DA?
The only thing that I ever shot out of my P226 was winchester white box. Pretty tame practice ammunition. Not sure about the burn rate or any of that, but my muzzle flip with that gun was a bit much. This also might have been due to that grip not really fitting me. It was a little big for my smallish hands. That might have lead to some of the issue that I had.
I've been poking around about the P250 and I was interested when I thought that this gun could be obtained at an "out the door" price of less than $600. It seems this gun will be closer to $700 and I'm not really willing to try it for that price.
|
|
|
|
Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 1, 2007 22:40:50 GMT -5
TBT; I have much faster recovery times with my 1911s but it's not entirely due to the bore axis. The triggers are much faster with my 1911s than the Sigs.
I have the Sig Sauers in .45 acp, .40 S&W, 357 sig, and 38 super. The tamest and the most lamest of those cartridges is the .40 S&W; it is almost boring to shoot when compared to the others.
Since I have four different Sig platforms for the 357 sig, it is probably the one I have more fun shooting. For the .45 acp; Since acquiring my two Wilson CQBs, along with a few Colts, I don't use up my 45 acp in the Sig Sauer as I once did.
The trigger on my 226 breaks on single action at around 4 lbs, with a very smooth double action stroke. It is a little better than the triggers on my Sig Sport pistols. The trigger I installed on the 226 is a short nickel plated factory that I ordered through TA's Top Gun Supply. I also use a wrap around rubber Hogue grip. My 226 is chambered for either the .40 S&W or the 357 sig through the use of interchangeable factory barrels. I found, on the 226, that the trigger bar drags a little on the inner portion of the slide. If you polish that up a bit, the friction will be reduced between the two surfaces. Reducing the hammer spring to a reduced power spring, from Wolff, will help also. I'm sure TA might have those springs. Choice of grips is also important ; helps your control of the pistol.
I want you to be happy with your P-226, it is a very nice pistol and one to be proud of.
If I had any issues with the Sig Sauers, I wouldn't have so many. If ,by chance, an issue develops, I work overtime to correct it. I'm not one of those who swears by only one kind of pistol but I'm not one of those who buys into every gun that crosses the table either. The Sig Sauers are my personal choice for Double Action Semi Autos, have been for a number of years. Prior to the Sigs, I owned exclusively nothing but Colt 1911s and revolvers.
|
|
|
|
Post by Callahan on Dec 1, 2007 22:42:18 GMT -5
I agree with the point about grip sizes. Not for the home enthusiast.
They decided to go after the military & police business.
That pistol may be an armorer's dream, but as an individual I can get better custom functionality in one pistol from other companies.
But, they can pretty much sell that pistol to any police force or armed force in the world.
|
|
|
|
Post by TBT on Dec 2, 2007 8:35:48 GMT -5
DA; I ended up selling my P226 a while ago. Not because the grip size or muzzle flip though but rather I didn't like the slide to frame fit. It was a used model from CDNN that I was really disappointed in. I think CDNN is very liberal in their definition of "excellent condition". I'm not sure if you remember the discussion I had with you fine gentlemen a while back on here regarding the slide to frame fit of that weapon. I couldn't get over it though and sold it for about $100 less than I paid just to get rid of it.
I've been thinking about adding another gun to my collection in the next couple month and was really thinking about either adding another SIG or maybe a CZ P-01. I was thinking about this 250 but now, I think if I add another SIG it will probably be a P229. Probably in 9mm. Do you have an opinion on either of these pistols?
|
|
|
|
Post by TMan on Dec 2, 2007 9:29:32 GMT -5
...I'm not one of those who swears by only one kind of pistol but I'm not one of those who buys into every gun that crosses the table either. ... Oh, now I know what he thinks of me. ;D ;D ;D With the exception of the Jennings J-22, and the X-Five, I could probably sell most of the guns that I've bought for more than I've paid for them. For example: I bought a H&K USC Carbine. When I came home I checked the current dealer cost and it was 30% more than what I paid for it (it was NIB, but had been on the dealer's shelve for awhile). With prices of guns constantly going up, and the dollar falling with the Euro, I wish I'd invested more in guns. I did do well in selling stocks this year, but some of my picks in the past.  The last time I was at Cabela's they had Python's that were no where near the quality of the two that I have, but they were asking twice what I paid. If you recall, it wasn't that many years ago that I bought mine. Hey, who do I think I'm talking to - my wife? We won't talk about some of her picks: like her technology stock that went to zero. Of course her worse pick was: ME! TBT, the real reason that I'm writing this post is to tell you that I agree with your comments concerning the grading system at CDNN. I was quite disappointed in the physical appearance of the last pistol I got from them. However, the same comment applies to AIM too: the CZ-83 shows a lot of holster wear. In fact when I was considering buying a CZ-82 (prior to taking the CZ-83 apart <mental note: get off your lazy butt, stop watching football and Fox News, and put the CZ-83 back together>), I noticed that MSG in Fort Worth had them for $50 more than what you get get them for if you shop on-line. If I was to buy one, I'd pay the extra $50 to check it over myself. I agree 100% with Callahan's comments about the P250, and I think you would be smart to pass on it. Unless the gun is being built in the US, you will also be buying it with Euro's, which is going to make it more expensive too. I don't have a P229 or a CZ-P01 (how about that DA!!! ;D ;D ), so I don't have an opinion on them, however, considering the manufacturer, I'd go with the P229 from an engineering standpoint. CZ's aren't known for their internal simplicity or ease of detailed disassembly. |
|
|
|
Post by TBT on Dec 2, 2007 13:38:06 GMT -5
Maybe I will pick up a P229 TMan. I've been thinking about picking up a CPO 229 and if I like it a lot making the jump to their Elite offering which IMHO is just a dead sexy gun if I've ever seen one. It's on par looks wise with the high end 1911's out there.
|
|
|
|
Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 2, 2007 17:23:12 GMT -5
No TMan; I was thinking more on the lines of people offering so called good deals on the side, like brother in laws, co-workers, a neighbor, or an acquaintance. I stay within a circle of those who know what I like and from those few, I have made some good contacts in the past. I've been hooked up with some good deals, from these contacts; my 4 inch Model 27 was one lead I got.
TBT; If you have smaller hands, and your looking into a Sig again, you might think about a short trigger. I do remember the discussion we had on the loose frame to slide fit on your pistol.
Slide to frame fit inspection is one which is best done prior to purchase. As much as I love the Colt 1911s, I have seen brand new custom shop Govt. Models which rattled like a pocket full of change when they were shook. I've seen other Colts which were fitted like those from a custom pistolsmith.
TBT; Hang around a little longer this time around. Someone will always be here and we always enjoy hearing from you.
|
|
|
|
Post by TMan on Dec 2, 2007 17:24:20 GMT -5
TBT, in light of our other comments today: the CPO pistols may show holster wear, dings, and other cosmetic damage, which Sig will not cover under the 1 year warranty. If I was to get one, I wouldn't order it, I'd have to buy it it after I viewed it. Also, from their web-site they state that the price will be reflective of its condition.
I must confess that I haven't been to the Sig web-site in a long time. I had to go look and see what the Elite package was all about. Also, I seem to get confused between the 229 and 239. Now I'm wondering if it was a 229 or a 239 that I rented in Tampa and we both shot it well.
Rather than going with the CPO 229 first, is there anyone around there that rents them or do you know anyone that has one. I guess going with the Elite first and not liking it would make it a safe queen. I have a few safe queens, but I can think of only one that I don't like, which is why I don't shoot it (the Jennings aren't in the safe, but in a locked and alarmed closet along with some other junk).
I'm impressed with the P229 Elite package as it is described on their web-site. If I was in the market, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. I also looked at the P220, and noticed they had 14 different configurations. I hate that - which one to pick. Sometimes I'm tempted to revert to my wife's jewelry methods: just buy the most expensive. However, it is more dangerous with jewelry: you can easily get ripped off. It drives me nuts when she buys diamonds or pearls without me being there to judge the quality. I wish I had such ability to judge quality on previously owned guns.
|
|
|
|
Post by TBT on Dec 2, 2007 18:08:50 GMT -5
Yeah the short trigger I've thought a lot about. What model is that for them .... the designated SRT or something?
I would definitely want to hold a CPO in my hand before I bought it. Maybe not even CPO, but used too. I've never had an aversion to used firearms. I've always had good luck with them. Well, except for that sig that CDNN misrepresented. Of course, I could have sent it back and should have. I also never mail in my rebates. I think it's indicative of my motivation.
I do need to come around here more DA. It doesn't feel like I don't come around much and then I check and it's been 3-4-5 months since my last post. My consulting business has really taken off though and time is limited. I do plan to find the time to spend here though. You guys are an invaluable source of knowledge (not to mention either that you are stand up folks as well) and it's not lost on me.
|
|
|
|
Post by TA on Dec 2, 2007 20:22:52 GMT -5
The Short Trigger and the SRT are two different animals. The short trigger is really just a thinner (front to back) trigger. It decreases the reach required. It is available for most models except the Single Action Only P220. SIG has discontinued the short trigger production on some of the older models, such as the P220 and P245 with the original narrow (8mm) serrated faced trigger. The newer P220's ( ~2006 and newer) share the same trigger as the P226, P228 and P229 which is 10mm wide.
The SRT or Short Reset Trigger is strictly a shorter reset between shots. It is accomplished via a different sear and safety lever. It is a very nice improvement and is standard on the Elite series. Sig will not sell the parts seperately...yet. So far, you have to send your gun into the Custom Shop to have this added. It is about a 10 minute job if you are slow.
On CPO's; most all are refinished these days, so they will look like a brand new gun, most of the time. There have been reports lately of some of the frame finishes peeling off by scraping with your finger nail. CCR refinishing has also reported some awfully pitted and patched slides after he stripped them for a refinish. Many dealers are steering away from these right now.
|
|
|
|
Post by TA on Dec 2, 2007 20:27:55 GMT -5
I agree! It is difficult to even keep up with all the new models and changes SIG keeps releasing. It makes my job very difficult. The days of just a P220, P225, P226 and P228 are long gone. The days when the options were night sights or not and an occasional two-tone.
|
|
|
|
Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 2, 2007 21:07:45 GMT -5
I agree! It is difficult to even keep up with all the new models and changes SIG keeps releasing. It makes my job very difficult. The days of just a P220, P225, P226 and P228 are long gone. The days when the options were night sights or not and an occasional two-tone. TA is the Man for keeping up on all the changes since the new owners took over at SIG. Same pretty much happened at Smith & Wesson since it was sold. I'm still old school on everything with the Sig Sauers, my most current pistols are the Sig 229 Sports, The 229, and the 226 with stainless slides; all in the .40 S&W /357 sig set ups. |
|
|
|
Post by Callahan on Dec 3, 2007 16:41:41 GMT -5
TBT, in light of our other comments today: the CPO pistols mayI must confess that I haven't been to the Sig web-site in a long time. I had to go look and see what the Elite package was all about. Also, I seem to get confused between the 229 and 239. Now I'm wondering if it was a 229 or a 239 that I rented in Tampa and we both shot it well. TMan: As I'm sure you know by now, the 239 is Sig's smallest pistol in 9mm-40-357. It's also my largest pistol, in weight and dimensions, by far! |
|
