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Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 3, 2007 17:37:01 GMT -5
If the P-239 had a double stack magazine, there would be little difference in carrying it over the 229. When I acquired my own P-239, it replaced the steel frame Colt Officer's model I had carried.
I'm now convinced that a smaller, 9mm, will fill the bill for a more friendly carry pistol than the bulk of the P-239. This don't mean I'll discontinue carrying other pistols, it just means I will have another level of options for concealed carry.
After reading a few articles on the Kel Tec, and listening to Callahan and TMan, this seems to be the one I will be focused on in the near future. It just might also be my very first 9mm.
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Post by TBT on Dec 3, 2007 21:33:44 GMT -5
Which Kel Tec DA? I've always been intrigued by those little pistols. Fobos is a fan too.
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Post by 5ontarget on Dec 4, 2007 10:15:19 GMT -5
Woosh---that is the sound of a thread being blown off topic.... That would be the PF-9 that they/he are talking about. Many of the folks on the 2 big kel tec forums have been begging them for a couple years to come up with a single stack 9mm. I'll keep my little 3AT for now.  |
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 4, 2007 18:55:32 GMT -5
Thanks 5ontarget.
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Post by TMan on Dec 4, 2007 23:17:49 GMT -5
DA, if you recall, I bought a PF-9 about the time that I bought the LS9. I didn't have any problems with the PF-9, but it was not comfortable to shoot. I really noticed the recoil. It is nothing compared to the recoil in the S&W Airlite, but it was still a lot for a 9mm. It was flawless, and the LS9 wasn't; therefore, my attention went to the LS9.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 5, 2007 1:35:57 GMT -5
TMan; My shooting hand once held up to shooting just about anything I shot but since retiring and going down, It hurts my hand to shoot the small J-Frame. I'm speaking in terms of 100 rounds or more of the 38+P.
When working, I would often use side cutter pliers to cut through heavy gauge steel, which strengthened my grip. Most others would use bolt cutters to cut through the same steel which I used my side cutters on, using only my grip hand. I did this on a daily basis for thirteen years. This greatly affected my shooting because it seemed to build on the same muscles which I used in handling the grip of a pistol or revolver. I've since discovered much of the same recoil and discomfort which many others had always complained about.
Even when my grip was at it's best, I've always found the smaller handguns to be more suited for carry than they were for range practice. I think it was Bill Jordan who said it best; "Carried Often and Shot Little", when referring to, I think it was, the Model 19 and the .357 magnum.
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Post by MLB on Dec 5, 2007 9:47:40 GMT -5
I always thought I'd like to shake DA's hand, but perhaps I'd reconsider after hearing about 13 years of cutting heavy gauge metal with side cutters. Maybe a friendly wave would be more in order ;D
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Post by TMan on Dec 5, 2007 9:53:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I was thinking that is a good thing he doesn't buy polymer guns - he could just crush that tupperware. ;D
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Post by Callahan on Dec 5, 2007 13:40:19 GMT -5
Woosh---that is the sound of a thread being blown off topic.... That would be the PF-9 that they/he are talking about. Many of the folks on the 2 big kel tec forums have been begging them for a couple years to come up with a single stack 9mm. I'll keep my little 3AT for now. I still have my 3AT. The PF-9 would fall in between the 3AT and the Subcompact XD in that photo. |
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Post by Callahan on Dec 5, 2007 13:48:23 GMT -5
TMan; My shooting hand once held up to shooting just about anything I shot but since retiring and going down, It hurts my hand to shoot the small J-Frame. I'm speaking in terms of 100 rounds or more of the 38+P. When working, I would often use side cutter pliers to cut through heavy gauge steel, which strengthened my grip. Most others would use bolt cutters to cut through the same steel which I used my side cutters on, using only my grip hand. I did this on a daily basis for thirteen years. This greatly affected my shooting because it seemed to build on the same muscles which I used in handling the grip of a pistol or revolver. I've since discovered much of the same recoil and discomfort which many others had always complained about. Even when my grip was at it's best, I've always found the smaller handguns to be more suited for carry than they were for range practice. I think it was Bill Jordan who said it best; "Carried Often and Shot Little", when referring to, I think it was, the Model 19 and the .357 magnum. DA: I doubt you would have trouble with the PF-9. Though I have only fired a box of 50 through mine so far, I did not feel it recoiled anywhere near my P239 in .40 or 357. I have 100 WWB for my next range or "country" session. Granted, I have not fired anything but brass Blazers through it, not the Hornady self-defense ammo they gave me to go with it. I did notice it has a bit more bite to it when down to one or two rounds than when the mag is full and one is in the chamber. I had no problems with the first 50. I'm not sure they have all the kinks worked out of that pistol yet, though. I will keep you guys updated on that. |
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 5, 2007 16:02:36 GMT -5
TMan; My shooting hand once held up to shooting just about anything I shot but since retiring and going down, It hurts my hand to shoot the small J-Frame. I'm speaking in terms of 100 rounds or more of the 38+P. When working, I would often use side cutter pliers to cut through heavy gauge steel, which strengthened my grip. Most others would use bolt cutters to cut through the same steel which I used my side cutters on, using only my grip hand. I did this on a daily basis for thirteen years. This greatly affected my shooting because it seemed to build on the same muscles which I used in handling the grip of a pistol or revolver. I've since discovered much of the same recoil and discomfort which many others had always complained about. Even when my grip was at it's best, I've always found the smaller handguns to be more suited for carry than they were for range practice. I think it was Bill Jordan who said it best; "Carried Often and Shot Little", when referring to, I think it was, the Model 19 and the .357 magnum. DA: I doubt you would have trouble with the PF-9. Though I have only fired a box of 50 through mine so far, I did not feel it recoiled anywhere near my P239 in .40 or 357. I have 100 WWB for my next range or "country" session. Granted, I have not fired anything but brass Blazers through it, not the Hornady self-defense ammo they gave me to go with it. I did notice it has a bit more bite to it when down to one or two rounds than when the mag is full and one is in the chamber. I had no problems with the first 50. I'm not sure they have all the kinks worked out of that pistol yet, though. I will keep you guys updated on that. I was actually surprised,with it's size, that it isn't a fixed barrel blow back. I was also surprised to find it also had a hammer. |
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Post by Callahan on Dec 5, 2007 17:45:25 GMT -5
From somewhere on the Internet:
The P3AT (and P32 and PF-9) achieves its lightness through the use of modern design engineering, equipment, and materials. While most pocket pistol builders use the straight blowback design, the Kel-Tec uses a locked breech system, like modern large-caliber pistols. By using a locked breech, the P3AT does not need a heavy slide to retard the blowback of the action. This results in the lightest .380 auto ever built. Like the P32, the new .380 fires with a smooth double-action pull of the trigger. The pull weight measured right at six pounds on the little .380. The P3AT does not lock the slide open after the last shot as does the P32. Big deal. This is a fair trade-off to achieve the small size of the weapon and still chamber the .380 cartridge.
PF-9 locks back after last shot.
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Post by TMan on Dec 5, 2007 19:54:32 GMT -5
PF-9 locks back after last shot. Ouch, ouch, ouch - that hurt. Guess I shouldn't have sat down with the LS9 in my back pocket. ;D |
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Post by MLB on Dec 6, 2007 10:50:11 GMT -5
I'd like to see a gun rag do a comparison on all of the small 9's. PF-9, LS9, PPS in 9mm, any others?
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Post by Callahan on Dec 6, 2007 13:48:20 GMT -5
The December issue of American Rifleman has reviews of the Kel-Tec PF-9 and the Walther PPS with dimensions for each. (The K-T is thinner, shorter and much lighter.) They seemed to really like the Walther.
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Post by TMan on Dec 6, 2007 19:59:47 GMT -5
I'd like to see a gun rag do a comparison on all of the small 9's. PF-9, LS9, PPS in 9mm, any others? How about the Kahr? |
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