Long-recoil operated pistol

[TMan]

There are a lot of short-recoil operated pistols that have been produced. Are there any long-recoil operated pistols where the barrel and breech would remain together through the entire reward stroke.

[MLB]

They'd have to seperate at some point to reload the next cartridge wouldn't they?

[TMan]

Right, but the barrel and breech stay together until the completion of the rearward movement, at which time they separate and the barrel moves forward and then the breech - according to what I've read.

I just don't know if they have ever produced a pistol that works that way. I thought perhaps some of the old-timers (in experience) might have seen or know of one.

["DoubleAction"]

TMan; I tried finding such a pistol in the 3rd edition of "Pistols Of The World" and the Numrich Gun Parts Catalog. ( hey, I got my Mozilla spell checker back)

For some odd reason, I'm thinking someone during the turn of the 20 th century might have applied for a patent of such an idea, otherwise I don't think you would be asking.

Still, it being a recoil operated pistol, the breech has to open in order for the empty cartridge to eject, as a new cartridge prepares to enter the chamber. After that, the breech will be closed.

The only pistols I know of with a permanently closed breech are the cap & ball flintlock pistols, where the bullet had to be inserted from the muzzle end of the barrel.

["DoubleAction"]

I think they call the caplocks and flintlocks "Muzzle Loaders".

Back to the more modern day pistol.

The Breech and Barrels actually lock into place at very close tolerances when the breech is closed, and unlock as the slide begins it's rearward travel on recoil, preferably after the bullet exits the barrel.

Blow back semi-autos have fixed barrels, which might not require locking on discharge.

[TMan]

DA, what got me thinking about it was a short blurb about the 3 different types. It explained the 3 types, and for the long recoil said:

the barrel and breech-block stay locked together through the entire reward stroke before they separate and the recoil spring drives the barrel forward. The spent cartridge is held in the extractor on the face of the breech-block and ejected, whereupon the block starts on its forward journey, picking up a fresh round in the process. From thin on the process is similar to that of the short-recoil cycle

However, they didn't give any examples of guns that use it.

For the blowback design they did mention using gas to delay the opening of the breech. I know this is the way it is done in the H&K P7 and Wilson ADP. I'm not sure where the Desert Eagle fits in. I know it is gas operated, and I guess you would call it delayed because there won't be any gas available until the bullet passes the port.

I would think in general that the blowback design would be more accurate that the short-recoil if the front sight is mounted on the barrel itself. On the PPK, where it is part of the slide, if the slide doesn't return to exactly the same position each time, you introduce inaccuracy.

(Yes, MLB, I know here I should be using the word precision, but every time I do that in a conversation I get these deer-in-the-headlights looks.)

I'm not sure where the majority of accuracy comes from in a pistol. What percentage comes from the machining of the barrel (I know they sell things called match barrels), and what comes from the mating of the barrel to slide and the slide to the frame.

Wonder once I get satisfied with all the triggers on my guns if I'll go down the "let's make this thing get tighter groups" path.

[MLB]

That would be interesting to know. In my case it would be entirely academic, as I know where the biggest source of inaccuracy is: it's a problem just behind the grips ;D

I hardly hear of a handgun review where the bench rested firearm can't provide a 3.5" group. Closer to 2.5 is the norm. If I'm shooting 6" groups, you can guess where about half of the problem is. (I routinely blame the Coriolis effect, but I get the same deer-in-the-headlights look.)

["DoubleAction"]

Quote:
the barrel and breech-block stay locked together through the entire reward stroke before they separate and the recoil spring drives the barrel forward. The spent cartridge is held in the extractor on the face of the breech-block and ejected, whereupon the block starts on its forward journey, picking up a fresh round in the process. From thin on the process is similar to that of the short-recoil cycle



TMan; The Browning Tilt barrel, which is found on many pistols including the 1911, Glocks, Sig Sauers, and many others, is one example of how the barrels locks up and closes the breech upon firing.
I have improved a couple of my own 1911s by installing and fitting new barrel bushings. I had one bushing fitted by a gun smith who had the right tools for accurately fitting the inside diameter to match with that of the barrel. The correct size link should assure a full lockup on the three upper locking lugs. The hood should be mated to the breech face and the slide to frame fit should be accurately fitted.
These are a few things which many require for achieving pin point accuracy at distances of 25 yds., for pistols which were originally designed for defensive purposes.
I have but only two different basic pistol designs, among the pistols I own, the 1911 and the Sig Sauers. Of these two, I have the target grade counterparts with the Colt Gold Cups and Sig 229 Sport pistols. A target grade pistol should also have an adjustable rear sight.