Good 40 S&W cartridges?

[Callahan]

I'm experimenting with various .40 caliber cartridges. On Wednesday, I took my SiG P239 to the range and fired three different loads:

Federal Self Defense loads with a 135-grain bullet, Remington HPs with a 155-grain bullet, and Winchester white box HPs with 180-grain bullets.

I was surprised to note little difference in recoil and quickness of followup shots. The Federals might have felt a bit softer.

What brand and bullet weight do the rest of you forum shooter who have 40s use and recommend?

["DoubleAction"]

Callahan; I always practice with the 180 gr. FMJ with the Sig 229, 229 Sport, 226, and 239. I'll also try out various defensive cartridges but I cannot notice a significant increase in recoil as compared to the 180 gr. FMJ. I've been using the Aquila cartridges for practice because I picked up on a stock pile of this stuff at a very reasonable price. I sometimes use the georgia arms .40 S&W in their 180 gr. FMJ for practice. I have used the Aquila in the 38 Super alot for my Sig 220, and find it to be quite potent in the hand, as compared to the .40 S&W. The same might can be said for Aquila's .40 S&W, since I noticed little difference when going to a 180 gr. Winchester SXT or 180 gr. Hydra Shok. I usually mix my shooting pleasure up with 357 sig, 38 Super, .45 acp, or .357 magnum when I carry the .40 S&W pistols to the range. My own percieved recoil will be much different from someone who shoots a steady diet of the .40 S&W without switching over a period of time.

[Callahan]

More to the point, what brands and loadings would you stake your life on?

I would like to hear about .40 primarily, but other calibers would be of interest, too, such as .357 Sig, 9mm and .45 ACP...

["DoubleAction"]

In .40 S&W; I load up with 135 gr. Corbon. I have plenty of the Hydra Shok in 135 gr, 165 gr, and 180 gr. but I carry mostly with the Corbon. I would not hesitate to load up with the 180 gr. SXT or PMC's Starfire, nor would I feel less confident with the 165 gr. Golden Saber, because I realize most encounters will probably be at close range.
To tell the honest truth; I would rely on any of these cartridges in a life threatening encounter, but I like something with some velosity on it. A wide diameter hollow point bullet, with 1300 fps, might provide enough transfer energy to it's intended target to stun it long enough for the application of art work.

[Callahan]

1300 FPS? Who needs .357 SiG? ;D

I've heard the Cor-Bons are hard on the pistol but I guess if you don't run a lot of them through it, it would not be a problem. Have you heard that?

Velocity on the Federal HS in 135 grain is 1190 as I recall.

I've heard some of the 155-grain stuff is a bit hot, too.

["DoubleAction"]

Callahan; I practice primarily with the standard velosity 180 gr. FMJ, as I mentioned before. I prefer not to over work the shorter recoil of the 239, so I practice primarily with the 229 and 226 in the same calibers. The 239 is a little more punching on the recoil, but easy to handle in the .40 S&W cartridge.
Yea; The 135 gr. Corbon, with it's wider diameter .40 bullet, is a good argument for the .357 sig.

[MLB]

I was having some feeding issues with my P99 .40, and I thought it was due to the new Sprinco recoil rod and spring. Turned out to be a combination of the stiffer spring and aftermarket ProMags that are not to spec.

Regardless, in trying to determine the problem, I picked up WWB in both 165 and 180 flavors to see if the heavier 180's would solve my problem.

Turns out that both worked fine in the factory magazines, and both suck in the ProMags. But more to your question, I couldn't tell a big difference between the two as far as recoil was concerned. I did learn however, that the 180 has a copper colored bullet, as opposed to the 165 grain brass colored bullet I usually pick up.

** Edited to add: I use the Federal Hydra-Shok's for defense too. I feel that the brand of bullet is nearly inconsequential in that situation though. I would stick to a hollowpoint, but it is so far overshadowed by placement as to be almost irrelavant to me.

[Callahan]

MLB:

Yeah, the 135-grain Federal Personal Defense cartridge is probably what I will adopt. I've read it has about 12" penetration which should be good from home defense situations.

Federal also has a HS in a more inexpensive load with a bigger bullet that I may investigate, too. I think that may be what you are talking about.

The FPD cartridges are anywhere from $20 to $25 in a clear plastic box of 20. Energy about 410; velocity is 1190 fps.

I'm not worried about accuracy, either, at self-defense distances.

[NButler]

I hope this isn't against the rules, if it is then i appologize, and i will delete this post. I found this pic on a different forum (www.tacticalforums.com in the terminal effects section) The testing was done by the people who run that site.


It shows different depths for different rounds. the unfortunate thing about this picture is that the die shows the "temporary cavity" more then the "permanent cavity". From what I have gathered the permanent cavity is the important one.
this link illustrates a temporary cavity vs. a permanent one.
www.vnh.org/EWSurg/images/Fig08.gif
its for the 7.62X39 and shows the bullet tumble.

[Callahan]

Whoa! If the darker area is the permanent cavity, that looks like a pretty "solid" argument for the 165-grain load in 40!

Thanks, NButler.

Has anyone seen anything on the Federal EFMJ (Expanding Full Metal Jacket)? I have not seen them anywhere. Also, does the Taurus copper bullet only come in .45 ACP?

[MLB]

I'd like to see 5 or so shots of the same load side by side. I wonder how much variance you'd see. So many people quote penetration depths to the quarter inch as if it were relavant.

Although there are the obvious differences here, I'd think that the effect on a person would be quite similar no matter which one he was hit with. I see about a 2" difference between the lightest 9mm to the mighty 45. The major factor would be whether you place that red streak in the center of mass, or the center of leg.

[NButler]

Callahan said:

Has anyone seen anything on the Federal EFMJ (Expanding Full Metal Jacket)? I have not seen them anywhere. Also, does the Taurus copper bullet only come in .45 ACP?

The Taurus Hex copper bullet only comes in .45 right now. Barnes does make the same bullet in other sizes (i believe) if you reload.

MLB,
I agree completely. The difference between all of those bullets are very small. It FAR more important where those bullets land on the target. If you are good with a 9mm, stick with that, it will do plenty (especialy since 9mm +p stuff gets up to almost the same velocity as the .357 sig)

Callahan,
I believe the dye is a little deceiving in that picture. the permanent cavity is largest with the .45 (provided the bullet expands completely) but we're still talking about fractions of an inch, which will not matter much. i'll include the text that came along with that picture. it was written by DocGKR

The following information comparing service pistol calibers has been previously discussed at length; as it is very illuminating, it is worth reviewing again.

The velocity or weight a particular bullet possesses is not terribly important, as long as it has appropriate penetration and expansion characteristics. Keep in mind that psychological motivation, training, and weapons system reliability are all far more important than what caliber handgun is utilized. All handguns are all relatively impotent; whether I am carrying a 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 ACP handgun is not terribly important to me, as adequate performing ammunition is available in all three calibers, and I have used each at one time or another while on duty.

The following loads have all demonstrated outstanding terminal performance:

9 mm:
Barnes 105 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Fed 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer 124 gr +P JHP (53617)
Win 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Win 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Fed 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Rem 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer 147 gr JHP (53619)
Win 147 gr JHP (RA9T)

.40 S&W:
Speer 155 gr JHP (53961)
Fed 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Win 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Win 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Fed 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Rem 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer 180 gr JHP (53966)
Win 180 gr JHP (RA40T)

.45 ACP:
Barnes 185 gr JHP
Federal 230 gr Tactical (LE45T1)
Speer 230 gr Gold Dot (23966).
Winchester 230 gr Ranger Talon (RA45T)
Winchester 230 gr +P Ranger Talon (RA45TP)

Notes:
-- While the .45 ACP Barnes all copper 185 gr JHP is just slightly deficient in penetration, I would not hesitate to use this load when a lower penetration projectile is desired--it is more versatile in different potential engagement scenarios and far superior compared to Triton Quickshok, Aguila IQ, Magsafe, Glaser, etc...

-- Although the Winchester service pistol loads (RA91P & RA401P) using the Nosler Partition Gold bullets are rumored to be discontinued, this Alan Corzine bullet design is too good not to be in production and I suspect another manufacturer will be savvy enough to start using them.

-- Obviously, clone loads using the same bullet at the same velocity work equally well (ie. Black Hills ammo using Gold Dot bullets, etc…)

[Callahan]

Interesting article on why 180-grain is a bad choice for the .40 and why the 165-grain is the much better choice:

greent.com/40Page/ammo/40/180gr.htm

[MLB]

Excellent article Callahan.

["DoubleAction"]

Here's another link :

mysite.elixirlabs.com/index.php?uid=12665&page=1638

["DoubleAction"]

www.alpharubicon.com/leo/calloadgoshin.htm

["DoubleAction"]

Back to the Tactical Forum to see what they thought about the 135 gr. Corbon, and the Evan Marshall, Fuller, and Sanow reports.

www.tacticalforums.com/ubb/Forum78/HTML/000581-2.html

["DoubleAction"]

I stopped by to check in with Chuck Hawks:

www.chuckhawks.com/beginners_stopping_power.htm

[5ontarget]

www.pistolballistics.org/Files/Pistol%20Ballistics.xls

posted this in the 9mm discussion too. Tried to cut/paste the .40, but it didn't look very good.

["DoubleAction"]

The .40 S&W has grown in popularity, no doubt about that, and the 357 sig seems to have hitched a ride on many of the pistols that started out from the factory as .40 S&W. These two cartridges have brought a standing ovation from the entire handgun community.
I already know what I expect from each, and the pistols that chamber those cartridges, it's interesting to read about others.

www.recguns.com/Sources/IIIC2q6.html