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Post by 5ontarget on Jan 18, 2005 21:50:53 GMT -5
What do you guys think... From what I've read ballistically they are similiar. Some give an edge to the GAP, some to the ACP. I think there will always be the 1911 in .45acp. It is too well established to ever fade away. The 1911 Prestige, parts, tradition, and proven effectiveness will always sustain the .45ACP. (I realize there are other guns chambered in .45ACP, but the 1911 format is by far the most popular.) I think more people desire a beautiful, custom 1911. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they lust for a tricked out glock...I'm sure they are out there, but I always hear people talking about what they want to do to their 1911, or what their next 1911 will be. The major advantage to the development of the .45 GAP is the overall cartridge is smaller and can be chambered in smaller guns without major retooling. ie glocks, xd's already have .45 GAPs. Supporters of the GAP site the ACP is old and dated, the GAP is new, fresh, uses more modern ballistics in shell constuction and powder to develop the same terminal ballistics as the ACP. So, 1. Will the GAP live on, or will it just be a passing fad? I think it will have some staying power, if for no other reason two very large manufacturers support it. I think having a .45 GAP XD would be a great gun...no I'm not buying one though...my .357sig is good for me. Besides, I want a 1911 more.  1a. if you answered, yes, then will it become more popular than the ACP for duty weapons? 2. If such "modern technology" went into the GAP as far as powder and case structure, why can't this be applied to the .45ACP and make the ACP that much better? |
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Post by 5ontarget on Jan 18, 2005 21:52:50 GMT -5
sorry I forgot to include some of the data on the two...I get to that later, unless someone posts it before me.
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Post by Ricochet on Jan 19, 2005 8:43:59 GMT -5
Here is a Tech data Sheet on the .45 GAP from Speer. www.speer-bullets.com/pdf/45GAP%20Tech%20Brief_150dpi.pdfThe velocity and energy are fairly comparable to the .45 ACP as well as the .40S&W. The one thing I noticed was that the GAP cartridge pressure was essentally the same as the .45 ACP which is significantly lower than the .40S&W. As you say, the payoff seems to be primarily the shorter overall size of the GAP -- a little shorter than a 9mm -- which can translate into reduced frame design/size. |
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Post by Callahan on Jan 19, 2005 13:14:38 GMT -5
The .45 GAP fits a pistol (Glock 37) with the same frame size as all the other Glocks. The only difference is a slightly larger slide, extractor, and I believe they use the same slide release as on their long slide pistols.
The cartridge gives you the ability to easily carry and conceal 11 rounds of .45 caliber in a package that weighs about 22 ounces (empty). It also has the Glock reliability and, in a Gun Test comparison with a Springfield loaded and an STI, it was the most accurate.
It also will come out pricewise cheaper than a lot of 1911s.
I expect them to sell a lot of Glocks (and Springfield XDs) in .45 GAP.
I may even become a Glock convert! ;D
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Post by MLB on Jan 19, 2005 15:27:07 GMT -5
Say it ain't so Callahan! ;D
I'd say that if the 45GAP grows in popularity, it will most likely be due to marketing as opposed to differences in performance. The same arguement can be made for any particular hangun as well.
If the local PD can get 10 sigs or 15 glocks for a given amount of cash, which do you think they will take?
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Jan 19, 2005 17:20:30 GMT -5
We had a discussion about the .45 GAP cartridge over a year ago, on the old handgun review forum, and I have not yet stumbled upon anyone who invested in it's future.
How is S&W, Sigarms, H&K, Kimber, Springfield, Para Ordinance, Colt, Nowlin, Winchester, Remington, Federal, Black Hills, PMC, and others responding to the popularity of the .45 GAP ?
The .45 acp is the standard American semi-auto cartridge for large bore chambers; That is a fact that Glock will have to live with for many moons to come. ;D
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Post by Ricochet on Jan 20, 2005 8:33:33 GMT -5
As noted, the Springfield XD opted to add a .45GAP model. It will be interesting to see what other semi-auto makers add this caliber to their line.
I haven't fired one, but I'd like to try it out sometime.
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Post by Callahan on Jan 20, 2005 8:53:07 GMT -5
Yup, only Glock and Springfield XD offer the 45 GAP so far. The cartridge was designed by Speer and is also loaded by Federal and Winchester. Winchester even figured how to load a 230-grain bullet into it, previously only the hallowed ground of the .45 ACP! ;D
Gun buyers tend to stick to traditional cartridges, witness the fact that .357 Sig is not yet available in your local Wal-Mart, at least not mine.
It would be a mistake to view .45 GAP as a competitor to the .45 ACP, IMHO, though. Since it is designed for smaller frame pistols, I view it as more of a possible problem for the .40 one day . . .
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Jan 20, 2005 18:27:07 GMT -5
Callahan; The 357 sig would probably be available at Walmart if most average people were up to snuff on the handgun industry. Most average people know nothing about the 357 sig; For that matter, most average people know very little about handguns period. Average people is what Walmart is all about; Maybe someone should tell the Sporting Clerk Guy that the 357 sig is available in Winchester's White Box and Federal's Classic FMJ.
My Walmart here was a great place to shop when they sold Handguns; They had Colt 1911s, Ruger Super Redhawks, Smith & Wesson revolvers, and alot more. I bought my S&W Model 29 at Walmart before they discontinued selling handguns. I would have purchased many more Handguns at Walmart.
One good thing about the .40 is the 357 sig; Kinda like one hand washing the other.
I wish more ammunition manufacturers would look into the .400 Corbon for the many .45 acp fans.
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Post by Callahan on Jan 20, 2005 19:39:28 GMT -5
My guy at Wal Mart gets a funny look on his face and says, "You mean .357 Magnum?"  |
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Post by MLB on Jan 20, 2005 19:56:09 GMT -5
There are a good deal of handgun owners who only know of 5 calibers or so.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Jan 20, 2005 20:02:02 GMT -5
My guy at Wal Mart gets a funny look on his face and says, "You mean .357 Magnum?" Callahan; There are three types of counter guys; You happened upon one of the most common types in the average guy catagory, right next to "I need some bullets for my gun, please". |
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Jan 20, 2005 20:16:49 GMT -5
There are a good deal of handgun owners who only know of 5 calibers or so. Your right ML; There are also some who do not know the caliber of the gun they carry in their glove box, before someone breaks in their car to steal it. Seems like big stores like Walmart would do something to promote the education of firearms, since they do profit from the sale of Shooting and Hunting supplies throughout their chain of stores. I wonder how much Walmart contributes to the promotion of Firearm Safety Awareness Programs for their average guy Sporting goods customers. |
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Post by Callahan on Jan 20, 2005 20:24:32 GMT -5
They promote firearms safety awareness by getting written up in the news when they are sued! ;D
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Jan 20, 2005 21:26:48 GMT -5
Walmart could probably benefit from starting their Firearms Education Program as an in store workshop, beginning with their Sporting Goods Managers.
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Post by Callahan on Jan 20, 2005 22:17:51 GMT -5
Yeah, they would, but first thing they would have to do is fire my counter guy...
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Post by 5ontarget on Jan 21, 2005 12:44:36 GMT -5
Guns & Ammo online notes that springfield will be releasing a .45GAP in a 1911 format, Springfield Micro, double stack 13rd, 3" bbl. Grip is 1/8" slimmmer than the ACP version. Also check out the pimped out CZ 30th anniversary model. Couple of other interesting things coming to the USA this year. EAA has a 1911 frame that shoots some big rounds, 223, .270, .30-06, .308, .375 Winchester, .44 Magnum and .45-70, as well as the new .500 S&W Magnum. www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/newhg_011105/FWIW, I have seen some internet speculation (yeah, I know how much credibility to place in internet speculation but...) S&W 625, and some CZ will be offered in .45gap. |
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Post by NButler on Jan 21, 2005 15:37:33 GMT -5
Guns & Ammo online notes that springfield will be releasing a .45GAP in a 1911 format, Springfield Micro, double stack 13rd, 3" bbl. Grip is 1/8" slimmmer than the ACP version. Also check out the pimped out CZ 30th anniversary model. Couple of other interesting things coming to the USA this year. EAA has a 1911 frame that shoots some big rounds, 223, .270, .30-06, .308, .375 Winchester, .44 Magnum and .45-70, as well as the new .500 S&W Magnum. www.gunsandammomag.com/ga_handguns/newhg_011105/FWIW, I have seen some internet speculation (yeah, I know how much credibility to place in internet speculation but...) S&W 625, and some CZ will be offered in .45gap. i am not sure i would ever want to shoot a 30-06 out of a handgun! it also said .375 winchester?! I didn't know there were still weapons being chambered in that. I have a Winchester model 94 in .375 win. very hard to find ammo for. I am very suprised to see that handgun being chambered for it. |
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Post by 5ontarget on Jan 22, 2005 9:01:02 GMT -5
I wonder how the competitive shooters will accept the .45GAP? Could potentially make a pretty good race gun...
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Post by Callahan on Jan 22, 2005 18:45:16 GMT -5
Oops! Just when you thought the matter was dropped!
My new issue of the NRA’s American Rifleman arrived today with big, full-page ads from Springfield and Winchester.
In the Springfield ad, they have a deal going where if you buy a 4” or 5” barrel XD in .45 GAP, “the first box is on us.” That’s right, a free box of ammo, I believe made by Winchester. Hardly the kind of enticement to make one want to switch ammo and pistols, but a nice offer nonetheless.
The other is a Winchester ad about the 230-grain cartridge they have developed for the 45 GAP. It has exactly, that’s right, exactly the same performance as the classic 45 ACP cartridge. They are selling it with the hook that you can carry the knockdown power of the 45 in a pistol that will hold 11 or more cartridges in an easy carry package.
Things may be beginning to heat up…<br>
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