If the dirty truth be told about 9mm . . .

[Callahan]

I've seen this subject danced around for a long time, and I thought I'd bring it up for some open, honest discusson.

Rightly or wrongly, here's my opinion. I hope ya can handle it. ;D

I am firmly convinced that the main reason for folks advocating the 9mm over larger calibers is they are sensitive to recoil. I think 9mm shooters are put off by the recoil of larger calibers such as .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and even the Magnum version of 9mm -- the .357 Sig.

I will see people post saying, "I think the 9mm is pretty much satisfactory as a self-defense caliber." Then some of thim will launch into a discussion of +P loads for 9mm. If it's "sort of OK" then why talk about +P?

Also, +P defeats one of the strongest arguments for using the 9mm, expense. Folks will talk about picking 9mm because it is cheap to practice with and then mention the latest +P load they are carrying. As far as I know, +P ammo is not cheap.

Anyway, there it is. Flame away!

[TMan]

I tend to think it is more expense than recoil. My P220 Sport in .45 caliber doesn't have any noticable recoil because of the weight and compensator, but I don't shoot it all that much because .45 ACP is just more expensive than 9mm. For the last 2 years I've bought 9mm by the case when it has been on sale. I've never seen .45 ACP on sale at any of my local haunts.

So what is the difference between .357 Sig and 9mm +P? The bullet size is essentially the same, but the .357 Sig has a lot more muzzle energy than the standard 9mm parabellum. So if you increase the muzzle energy by going to +P, where are you? i.e. I don't think the argument holds water.

For a new shooter I would definitely recommend 9mm over some of the more powerful rounds. Of course, as you well know, the recoil is a product of the gun and the ammo. (My worse gun for recoil is a little light Taurus in .38 Special. After 50 rounds my trigger finger is numb.)

If a novice is getting a lot of recoil, they are going to develop bad habits, flinching, closing their eyes when pulling the trigger, etc. Also, if they aren't holding the gun properly they are more likely to get stove-pipes with the hotter rounds, which lessens their enjoyment.

My personal choice for my new shooters is the CZ75 in 9MM followed by something in .22xx. They leave on a high note with a grin on their face. (Can I keep those last targets? Sure!!!!)

Concerning 9mm for self-defense: if there is less recoil, the placement of the second shot will be better. My instructor was a strong advocate of double-caps. "Two in the chest and if they don't stop they are on drugs. The next one between the eyes".

Just as a side note: last year a local taxi driver got shot 8 times. He went to the hospital and they removed some of the bullets, but couldn't get them all. He was back at work the next day. It didn't say, but I'm guessing that it was .22LR, not .454 Casull. This was on the radio not on TV. I would have like to see where the bullets hit him - obviously not in vital organs.

Back to my instructor, he also advocated bending forward at the waist if you are ever in a gun battle. That way your vital organs aren't exposed. Their bullets would hit you in the shoulders or legs. In my case, if you've read any of my posts, you realize there is nothing vital in my head so having it exposed is no problem. ;D

[Callahan]

Good one, TMan! ;D

[5ontarget]

here's the best ballistics table I've found to date.
www.pistolballistics.org/Files/Pistol%20Ballistics.xls not entirely related to the discussion, but good information.

I think 9mm is commonly chosen because it is the accepted round for the military sidearms, many police depts. Many people look to see what the professionals carry and choose their caliber and often the gun based on that.

9mm is often picked as a "starter" gun as TMan mentioned.

9mm is a versitile round, available in many different loads, giving the shooter a choice when choosing what to shoot. For practice, and range shooting, there is no cheaper centerfire ammo readily available. This makes it a great gun for range/plinking. People then may look at it for self defence and then they can get into defensive rounds, and +p, +p+ stuff. Now they have a cheap range gun, and a gun for protection.
Agreed, +p and good defensive rounds are not cheap, and the recoil is significantly greater than standard range/ball ammo. This would definitely take some time, money and practice to get used to, but in the eyes of some, still cheaper and easier than getting proficient with new gun. They stick with the gun they already know and own.

[TBT]

From a defensive standpoint …

I think with the ban lifted you have to look at capacity too.

The 9mm can be loaded with rounds that rival the 40SW cartridge and you can get 15-20 rounds in most magazines. With a possibility of maybe having to face possible multiple threats I think it would be foolish to completely disregard the round.

I’m not saying that it “is the right choice”, just that it is a very viable option that should be considered.

[Adam Dieffenbach]

my first gun was the s/w sigma SW9VE. i chose that because the ammo was $7.50/box. then i realized that i would want something with stopping power. so i got +P hollow points. i have only shot a few 40 s/w guns but i like the 9 better and i also have the G31 in 357sig.

bottom line: the 9mm has enough stopping power for any possible situation. so does the 40 and 45, but the 9 is the cheapest for practice.

either way, i'll keep my little G26 at my side and my G31 under the car seat or under the pillow.

if that's not enough there's always the 12 GA w/slugs or 00 shot

deef