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Post by MLB on Dec 17, 2005 19:11:38 GMT -5
Ok. For someone generally informed in firearms in general, I am woefully uninformed on the variations of this most famous of the automatics.
Is there a good resource where I could learn the differences between the M-16, the AR-15, the M-4, M-5, SU-16...
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 17, 2005 20:33:23 GMT -5
MLB; If I had all the variants of the M-16, I could easily post images of each and describe the difference. As for the newer military versions; the M-4 is one I know from it's more current use as a carbine with a calapsable butt stock and barrel cut for the attachable greenade launcher. M-16 The Ar-15 is the semi-auto commercial variant of the select fire M-16. You will notice that Colt changed the names of the commercial version through the years, to include "Sporter" and "HBAR". The M-4 Carbine History Of the Development |
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Post by TMan on Dec 17, 2005 23:09:36 GMT -5
Is the spell checker broken? ;D MLB, I have the SU-16, which has a "calapsable stock". Well, sort of - it does fold up after removing a pin, which can be done by using a bullet. I've never had any problems with the SU-16, which is a Kel-Tec product. They have several variants: A, B, C, CA, and D. www.kel-tec.com/products.htmI have the SU-16A model, and I mounted a scope on it because I hated the sights that were provided with the rifle. I have what is called a shotgun case, which I use for carrying the AK-47, Bushmaster 97s, and the SU-16 to the range. It is more than just the stock that folds with the the SU-16. The trigger control unit folds with the stock.  Also, it has a bi-pod built into it. The manual for the SU-16 is one of the best I've ever seen. It appealed to me for the "cool" features, and the fact it was made by Kel-tec. The AR-15 was adopted by the Air Force to replace the M1 Carbine, which was what I qualified with in Air Force basic training. Prior to going to Vietnam, I had to qualify with the AR-15. When I arrived there, I was given a M-16, which had the full auto capabilities, along with two loaded magazines. I placed these in my locker. It wasn't too long before the magazines were "lost" in my locker. Then we got attacked. Mortars were being walked in on us and were getting close. I was digging through my locker looking for the magazines. By the time I found them, and got to the bunkers, the attack was over. From that point on - the magazines were next to the rifle, which was ready to lock and load. I've thought of getting a good AR-15, but I think prior to that I'll get a Ruger Mini-14, but I'm not quite sure I want one of those yet. I'll do more research the next time I'm in China with nothing to do I've got to get more selective in what I buy - I'm running out of room. The other factor is: buy a good AR-15, or buy 5 Mil-Surp rifles. I'm really enjoying buying, refinishing, and shooting the Mil-Surp rifles. My latest addition is a Mosin-Nagant "Sniper" version, which was $20 more than the regular version. However, I could feel a big difference in the trigger pull of the sniper version and felt it was a much better buy. |
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 17, 2005 23:59:32 GMT -5
TMan; I should have wrote "Retractable", instead of calapsable ( collapsible] . I would have a very difficult time spelling that one wrong again, but then again, I had a hard time locating any links that worked on this topic.
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Post by MLB on Dec 18, 2005 17:56:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the links & info. Looks like I've got a bit of reading...
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Fobos
Gold Member
Posts: 202
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Post by Fobos on Dec 23, 2005 10:04:15 GMT -5
Let's see if I can remember all of this.... The AR-15 was originally designed by Colt as a semi-auto rifle. It boasted the triangular handguards and a rear sight that had no elevation (or was it windage?) adjustment. They made a full-auto version for the military and called it the M16-A1. During Vietnam, a few upgrades were made to the rifle, such as chrome lining of the barrel.  Later, a few changes in the design brought about the M16-A2, which included the round handguards, a forward assist, and a fully adjustable rear sight. It also had a slightly shorter stock. It also provided the military with the "3 round burst" mode of fire. I believe that this model was first introduced with a 1/7" RH twist, and it was the first to offer the 1/9" RH twist to boost the performance of non-military ammo that tended to fragment with such a high rate of twist.  The M16-A3 was essentially the same as the A2 with the exception of a removable carry handle. It was first offered in the 16" and 20" barrels.  The M-4 is a carbine length rifle that is easily identified by the narrow, eliptical handguards. It also has a newly designed feed ramp. Hope that helps to clear things up a bit... |
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 23, 2005 15:15:28 GMT -5
Fobos; The original design of the AR-15 / M-16 belonged to Eugene Stoner, which he designed while working for Armalite. Stoner later went to work for Colt as a consulant, and Armalite sold the patent for Stoner's rotating bolt system to Colt. The Rifle has evolved through the years, as you mentioned. The more current versions are available with the heavier barrels, with different twist rates than the originals. The more current versions of the M-16 features a three shot burst, rather than full auto. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Stonerwww.bobtuley.com/stoner.htmwww.armalite.com/library/techNotes/tnote54.htm |
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Fobos
Gold Member
Posts: 202
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Post by Fobos on Dec 23, 2005 18:58:01 GMT -5
Thanks, DA. As with most firearms with which I am familiar, I know more about the specs than the history.
Along with the 1/7" and 1/9" twist rates I mentioned, there is also a 1/8" twist rate that has been around for a few years now on the A2 and newer models.
Even though the A2 introduced the 3-round burst, I believe some of our military's M-4's are available with the full-auto option. And just as a side note: the military considered a two-round burst option on the experimental XM-8 that is currently being designed for our military. I don't know if they stuck with the idea.
Not only are the AR15 variants available in many configurations, but they are available in several different calibers as well. I have an Armalite AR10-A4 that is based on the A3 design, but chambered for the 7.62NATO. I've seen them chambered for the .300WinMag, .22LR, 6.8SPC, 9x19, .40S&W, .45ACP, and 10mm... and there are others out there. I even heard rumors of a company that would custom design actions and barrels for any caliber upon request.
The AR15 has developed into one of the most versatile rifle platforms in the world.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 23, 2005 19:34:41 GMT -5
Fobos; For five years, while on active duty, the only thing I knew about the M-16 was how to clean it and shoot it; That was it. I never knew anything about Stoner or the Ar-15. Tell the truth, it was pretty much the same for the 1911 back then.
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