|
|
Post by TMan on Mar 17, 2004 9:46:25 GMT -5
Anyone have an opinion on the HARRT RECOIL REDUCER ? Reading the testamonials on their web site made them sound good, but if you produced a product and got 10,000 complaints and 10 kudos, which would you post on your web site?
Is it worth $75? My birthday present, (which might arrive early) is going to be a Sig 220 Sport, which is ported - would it be all that much better with the Harrt system?
|
|
|
|
Post by MLB on Mar 17, 2004 13:31:53 GMT -5
There was a discussion on the Walther forum on this thing. The guy that bought it said there was no big difference, but I haven't tried it myself.
|
|
|
|
Post by "DoubleAction" on Mar 17, 2004 19:11:23 GMT -5
I've heard some good reviews on the Harrts Recoil Reducer. It seems that the ball bearing balls in the mercury filled guide rod tube actually works, based on some of it's reviews.The only problem that remains is the one that spends $75. dollars to find out if those reports are fact, or advertizing. I have a couple of 229 Sport pistols, with a few standard 229s in .40S&W and .357sig, and I think you will find few people with the comped pistols require the need for the Harrts Recoil Reducer. The extra weight of the stainless frame helps absorb alot of the recoil, as with the recoil system of the pistol, where the recoil of the slide rests upon the compressed recoil spring, rather than the guide rod head and frame. The Sport pistols are handfitted for very smooth tolerances; if you want to reduce recoil, look at the ammunition.
|
|
|
|
Post by TMan on Mar 17, 2004 22:04:02 GMT -5
DA, The 220 Sport arrived today. Naturally, I had to field strip it first, which involved removing the compensator. Naturally, there wasn't anything in the manual about it. Naturally, I didn't get it back on right and the slide would stick when I pulled it back all the way. I found a supplement on the sigarms web site that tells the right way. If there is any possible way to screw-up, I'll find it.
I'm going to take this thing to the range tomorrow and see how I like it. First impression is that it came from the factory well lubricated. I was rather surprised at the grips and thought of replacing them until I noticed that they were Hogue grips. I'm not sure that it would look that much better with wood grips.
Actually, the only gun I've shot that I thought the recoil was objectionable was the little Kimber, and after buying "Uncle Mike's" gloves, it isn't a problem. The reason I was thinking about the recoil reducer was that the less muzzle flip, the quicker back on target.
T-Man
|
|
|
|
Post by ronbwolf on Mar 23, 2004 11:46:40 GMT -5
I had two, for Glocks, they seemed okay at first, but later produced malfunctions, I sold them, and have had no problems since.
|
|
|
|
Post by TMan on Mar 23, 2004 20:22:52 GMT -5
..., but later produced malfunctions, ... Hey, don't leave me hanging like that - what kind of malfunctions, and what let you to believe it was being caused by the recoil reducer? |
|
|
|
Post by KrustyBurger on Mar 25, 2004 9:53:53 GMT -5
I've been curious about Harrts as opposed to Buffer Tech's cheap plastic widgets. I recall someone's webpage of tests last year (lost the link) & the bottom line was that measured recoil wasn't reduced that much in lower calibers like 9 or .40 s&w. The more effective results were with more powerful rounds like .45, .357 Sig, 10mm, etc. Some models sounded like kind of a pain in the neck to fit in, too.
|
|
|
|
Post by TMan on Mar 25, 2004 18:03:58 GMT -5
Krusty, I actually like the "cheap plastic" buffers. Anything between metal and metal is going to cushon somewhat. The only problem I've had with them is that I put the one in my CZ-75 backwards. It made it difficult to lock the slide open manually. When I got it right everything worked normally. I even have one in my S&W 41, which is a .22LR; it gets rid of that jarring recoil ;D
Seriously, the only pistol I've fired where the recoil bothered me was the little Kimber, but after I got the Uncle Mike's gloves that was no longer a problem. I shot much better with it too. Since the Kimber is my CCW, the only thing that bothers me now is the strange looks people give me walking around wearing Uncle Mike's gloves. ;D I'm on a roll !!!
|
|
|
|
Post by KrustyBurger on Apr 4, 2004 9:20:36 GMT -5
LOL. Tman, I'm lmao because I did the same thing with my CZ BufferTech widget! I couldn't figure out why the slide was binding so bad, lol. Once I figured it out, it worked fine tho recoil wasn't bad in the 75 to begin with. The written install instructions on the little cards in the BufferTech baggies leave a lot to be desired, especially their rifle ones. I think they're OK, but I wouldn't use one in any rifle over .223 caliber. I tried one in a DSA FN-FAL .308 and I suspect it was the cause (from bolt bounce) when the safety lever blew in half & came flying off. By the way, they used to be Wilson's blue 'Shok Buffs' until Wilson sold the designs off. I have no probs with the Harrts, they just might be more cost worthy in larger calibers.
|
|
|
|
Post by "DoubleAction" on Apr 4, 2004 9:39:09 GMT -5
The Harrt's recoil reducers are emtirely different from the Shok Buffers. The Harrt is a full length hollowed out guide rod that is filled with steel balls and mercury to counter react with the muzzle flip. The shof buffers are only a cushion inserted on the guide rod head which sandwiches a pad between the frame and the slide when the slide cycles. Shof Buffers have long been used in one form or another in the 1911s, whether self made from pieces of leather or provided by pistolsmiths.
|
|
|
|
Post by KrustyBurger on Apr 4, 2004 11:02:21 GMT -5
True enough. They really shouldn't imply that they're 'recoil reducers' in the sense of muzzle flip like the Harrts or barrel porting. A true recoil reducer would absorb and meter out inertial opposite force like the hydraulic shocks on a car. I'd love to see a hydraulic or pneumatic arrangement like that inside an auto pistol's slide with a rotating bolt, somewhat resembling the Wildey. Imagine shooting .50 or.480 stout loads that felt more like .44 special or whatever. Wish I were an engineer ...
|
|
|
|
Post by "DoubleAction" on Apr 4, 2004 14:56:18 GMT -5
Krusty; There are recoil rods that have extra shock booster springs located near the guide rod head to absorb the impact; One is manufactured by EFK, called the "Fire Dragon", another is manufactured by Sprinco, and the other is called the "Recoil Master". What I prefer is to simply replace the lower rated, or worn, recoil spring with one that will provide better strength to absorb the silde's recoil, much less expensive and it works. Wolff makes varable power recoil springs, which provides greater srtength as the spring compresses; to me, this is the better option for those pistols where the recoil comes to rest on the compressed spring, as in the case of the P-Series Sigs.
|
|
|
|
Post by TMan on Apr 6, 2004 12:20:13 GMT -5
Well again what is written in the Bible came true: "a fool and their money are soon departed" or something to that effect. I bought the Harrt for my Sig P228. I just had to know!!! It appears to be a nicely made precision piece, well polished, and good looking. Now the results: I first shot 25 rounds without the Harrt so I could remember exactly what the gun felt like. I've noticed the recoil more on the P228 than I have on some other 9mm that I've shot. Then I put the Harrt in and shot another 25 rounds. I could tell the difference. Was it a 40% reduction? Hey, I don't have a clue. All I can say is that it did make a difference. I don't know how to measure recoil. Trigger pull is easy - I have a gauge, but recoil  To me there are two aspects of recoil, the vertical movement, where the muzzle flips up, and the horizontal where it comes back at me. I don't particularly like either, but I'd prefer the horizontal to the vertical because I feel like I have more control. I'll leave the Harrt in the gun, because after spending $75 for it, if I took it out, my wife might find some other place to put it.  |
|
|
|
Post by "DoubleAction" on Apr 6, 2004 18:52:41 GMT -5
TMAN; Since the recoil reducer is designed to reduce the amount of muzzle flip, you might see the results better if you use a timer to get a measurement of your split times, with your combined score average. If you do this with the reducer, and without, you might offer many of us reasoning in the risk of purchasing the rod. I've often given thought to installing one in one of my 1911s to take advantage of any extra benefits offered.
|
|
