Its Not About The Caliber

["DoubleAction"]

Its not about the caliber that you use, its about the caliber of your speed, the caliber of your accuracy, and the caliber of your balls to deploy the weapon when you most need it.

[5ontarget]

Indeed!

["DoubleAction"]

This took me several years on this Internet, to finally put an end to this riddle, and it took a stroke to allow me to see through it.

Its kind of like not being able to seei the Forest because of the Trees.

[5ontarget]

0.45in 0.40in 0.356in (9mm) 0.357in etc. not that big of a difference in the size of the hole...
much more important is where that hole is located and terminal ballistics of the bullet. I've been saying that for years.

I have joked with some friends that I don't want a precision handgun that groups 0.5in at 25yds. In a defensive situation, I want to spread the holes out more. (Notice I did say that I was joking, I'm not capable of shooting that well, and certainly not in a stressfull situation.)

[TBT]

Hell yeah DA. I've long been of the belief that while bigger is better, it's by such an insignificant amount it doesn't really matter. I also think that penetration trumps expansion and that stopping power and energy dumps/transfers are nothing more than marketing terms.

But you nailed it man; Get good with your gun. Make sure you are fast, accurate, and willing to discharge if needed. That's really all that matters.

["DoubleAction"]

I'm that you like my take on this.

I just grow tired of all fuss about which caliber is better to use in defensive situations.

[TA]

While I agree with the "shot placement is king" school of thought, I personally have a mental block that I cannot overcome. I am just not comfortable carrying anything less than .40S&W or .357SIG. I know that more people have died by 9mm than any other caliber, but I just can't get past it.

My wife laughs at me while we watch the news. There will be a shooting in the area. They will report that the shooting victim is expected to make a full recovery or "was treated and released". I always proclaim, it must have been 9mm. The majority of the time, that is the case. This, coupled with the fact that I must be armed due to my chosen occupation makes me like bigger and/or faster hunks of lead and ideally, higher capacity along with extra loaded magazines.

I know this is all crap, but I just can't seem to convince myself. 9mm has come a long way with it being the most common LE handgun round in the world. 124 gr, +P Gold Dots are a hell of a round!

But, all that being said, I do shoot my preferred rounds well. That is something that cannot be argued. Carry whatever you shoot well. During high stress, you will lose a considerable amount of fine motor skills. .45ACP is a great round, but if you cannot control it and are more accurate with 9mm, then 9mm is what you should be carrying.

[MLB]

A few of my favorite pieces of advice I've heard are that you can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight, and that a hit with a .380 trumps a miss with a .44.

[TA]

May 9, 2010 20:00:20 GMT -5 MLB said:

A few of my favorite pieces of advice I've heard are that you can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight, and that a hit with a .380 trumps a miss with a .44.

I can't agree with that more.

[TBT]

TA - It took me a long time and a lot of reading to overcome that same issue you have with the 9mm. For the longest time I just couldn't get past it.

I shoot my 45 as good as my 9mm. I've always thought the difference in recoil/thump between those two rounds was way overblown. I hardly notice a difference. I choose the 9mm as my carry load because of my belief that the bullet diameter is of minimal consequence so why not pack more in the same size gun.

Well that and I don't like beating up a nice government model by carrying it everyday.

[TMan]

I shoot my 45 as good as my 9mm.

Well, I've found in general that I shoot my 45's better than I do my 9mm's.

I've also found that these fricken toads have tough skulls, and my .177 pellets bounce off their skulls. The first one that I shot on Sunday night had that sac under his chin extended. My first shot was basically in his butt, and he just squatted down. The second shot was in the middle of his body and just blew him off the rock sideways. It was something like in a movie. When I examined the corpse I saw the pellet had gone through him and hit the rock, but not completely gone through him, which caused the sidewards momentum.

When I took basic self-defense training, my instructor said: "two shots to the chest, if he doesn't stop, he is on drugs, the next shot is to the head".

My point is: shot placement and the number of shots means a lot. The woman that I buy most of my guns from had a sister. Her sister's husband stuck a 22LR pistol in her mouth and pulled the trigger. She died and he is serving a life sentence.

Shot placement means a lot.

[TBT]

Shot placement is key, no doubt. A lot of people claim to shoot the 9mm a lot better because of the lesser recoil etc. I personally think the difference is minimal between the two rounds. Shooting them back to back I can feel it but I personally don't gain enough of an advantage shooting a 9mm over a 45 for it to be a factor. If I decide to carry the 45 again (possible, I'm eyeing the M&P45) I won't view the larger caliber to be a hinderance in follow up shots.

[mtnboomer]

As we all know most individuals who say they can't shoot a particular caliber well have one of two problems - either they are psychologically intimidated by that caliber (usually caused by info received from third-parties) or by shooting that caliber in a firearm that did not fit them (too bulky, too heavy, etc.).

I believe that most all persons, regardless of size, sex, race, experience, etc., can manage the recoil of most every standard semi-auto caliber - except for possibly the 10 mm auto. due to it's very fast recoil energy curve.

["DoubleAction"]

THE TRUTH BEHIND STOPPING POWER

www.tactical-life.com/online/combat-handguns/the-truth-behind-stopping-power/

"Bullet or caliber type won’t win the fight—it’s all about practice and trigger control.
Select the best equipment you can afford, but once you have done so resist the temptation to switch every time something new comes out.
Yes, it is wise to know what is good gear and what isn’t, but once you’ve selected your sidearm, holster, knife, ammo and other related accessories the need to train and practice becomes paramount."[/color]

Ballistic Testing
In 1987, American law enforcement was dealt a severe blow in Miami, Florida that cost several FBI Agents their lives. Facing two very determined opponents who were armed with superior firepower, these agents fought bravely but their lives were not lost in vain. From this incident came the very best ammunition ever developed by all of the ammunition manufacturers.
See Below

1986 FBI Miami Shootout

handgunforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=varous&action=display&thread=2968

An Urban Gunfighter: The Lessons of Lance Thomas

Real Gunfighter Lance Thomas watch maker kills 5 east LA Gang Bangers on Justice Files.

"Over a period of less than 3 years, Thomas was involved in four gun battles against a total of 11 known suspects. He shot six of them, killing five. The watch dealer himself was wounded on two of these occasions, taking a total of five rounds."

The Ayoob Files; An Urban Gunfighter: The Lessons of Lance Thomas

In Book : "The Deadliest Men: The World's Deadliest Combatants Through the Ages" by Paul Kirchner

It lists Gunfighters like Wild Bill Hickok and Bat Masterson, and a man named Lance Thomas.

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_156_26/ai_82533205/

[Callahan]

Anybody who is a lawful pistol owner should aspire to the capability of Lance Thomas. That guy is an inspiration. Or maybe was, it's been awhile.

["DoubleAction"]

Lance Thomas relocated to a much better & peaceful place, than he was at, the time of the shootings.

Lance Thomas seemed to be very quiet of his notoriety, but he seemed to be very serious about his right to exist.

I have a lot of respect for him and his principles.