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Post by TBT on Dec 18, 2007 9:24:30 GMT -5
Hey all, looking at those revolvers for camp I started looking a little at snubbies and the more and more I think about it I really like the idea of owning a weapon that can be pocket carried. This comes with weight restrictions and the best candidate seems to be the SW J frames.
My question is simple ... would a SW 642/442 loaded with 38+p ammunition be a viable self defense round? Or does one need to opt for the magnum and the legendary recoil out of such a light weapon?
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Post by Callahan on Dec 18, 2007 10:25:46 GMT -5
I'm not a revolver person, but I think the 38+P is "probably" adequate for self-defense, though I imagine in Pa. there's the likelihood of an aggressor wearing heavy winter clothing that might clog the hollowpoint and also have an affect on penetration. If you are talking non-human targets . . . I sure would rather have a .357 in my hands against a bear -- and that's my really minimum there! Everything I've heard about those pistols is negative on recoil. That also hurts for quick followup shots. OK, so I guess it's becoming obvious that I really don't much like the idea of a .38 light-alloy "smoke wagon" in the country!  Can't you find a comfortable holster and carry a larger sidearm when you are in the woods? I usually opt for 357 Sig or .40 S&W in a Sig P239 semiauto. That pistol is fairly small, about 10 more oz. than the S&Ws you are looking at. Same action as the revolver on the first shot. |
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Post by TBT on Dec 18, 2007 10:35:43 GMT -5
Oh no, you misunderstand me. I will have a larger gun on me for the woods. Probably, the more and more I look, a GP100 with a 4" tube. Also, I usually carry a Glock 19 and sometimes a Kimber Ultra Carry II 45ACP.
What I'm looking for is something deep cover to carry in a pants or jacket pocket. I notice at times I leave the house without a gun because it's a pain in the ass to get the belt and strap it on etc. So maybe a little 38+p? You know?
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Post by TBT on Dec 18, 2007 10:41:14 GMT -5
Maybe an SP101 would do the trick in .357 mag though. I'm really not as "carry weight sensitive" as most people are. I carried my Kimber in my pocket a few times and didn't have a major issue with it. And the SP101 is smaller and lighter than that. And it's a .357 magnum so ...
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Post by Callahan on Dec 18, 2007 10:49:46 GMT -5
I see upon re-reading it was a matter of, while you were looking at camp pistols, you became interesting in the small scandium revolvers for pocket carry at other times.
I think it's pretty hard to beat them for concealability.
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Post by TBT on Dec 18, 2007 12:00:50 GMT -5
Yeah, that's my thinking too. I'm just not sure if I need it will it be enough? You listen to the internet keyboard-commandos online and anything short of packing a 12 gauge with a government 45 as a BUG is suicide.
I'm used to the security of 7-8 rounds of 45 or 16 rounds of 9mm ... 5 rounds of 38sp is a big downgrade ...
But it would be so nice to carry it ... UGH.
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Post by MLB on Dec 18, 2007 13:37:17 GMT -5
Looking at the "ballistic gelletin" pictures, I just don't see that much difference between 9mm and .45acp. I understand the big difference in energy, but the hole in the blob, and the penetration are *about* the same.  A 9mm and .38+p are nearly the same aren't they? I understand that most firearm deaths are caused by (someone misusing) the diminutive .22LR. |
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Post by TBT on Dec 18, 2007 13:47:24 GMT -5
All those expansion/penetration studies just confuse me.
In all honesty, I think if I was proficient with a 38, I think I could end a fight with it just as good as I could with a 45.
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Post by TBT on Dec 18, 2007 17:08:16 GMT -5
How bad can recoil actually be? That M&P 340 looks like the perfect pocket rocket. Practice mainly with 38's and a few magnums?
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Post by TMan on Dec 18, 2007 19:15:39 GMT -5
How bad can recoil actually be? Well since it has the steel cylinder it is slightly heavier than mine by less than 2oz. When I shot my 360PD, I only shot 4 rounds. The recoil was so bad that the front of my finger was hitting the trigger guard with such force that I had to stick my finger in ice to get the swelling down. I don't have a 500 S&W, and really don't have a desire to buy one, but I have the Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull, the 460 XVR, and a few 44 Magnums. You know when you pull the trigger on those, but there isn't any real pain. I've also shot 357 Magnums in a Bond Arms and it dances around a little in my hand, but no pain. These little light weight S&W's are a handful with 38 Specials, and downright painful with 357 Magnum. I wouldn't dream of shooting S&B 357 Magnums in one. I shot the lightest personal protection 357 Magnum too. As far as carrying one: Yes, I love it!!!  |
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 18, 2007 19:33:08 GMT -5
TBT; The 38 + P is currently my own bottom line for a cartridge in a smaller, lighter weight, concealable carry piece. The S&W 640 Centennial is my own personal choice, which fills the need for such a revolver. For cartridges; I usually load Remington's Golden Sabers, Federal's Hydra Shoks, Federal's 125 gr. NYCLAD hollow points, Speer Gold Dots, or Georgia Arms' +P Sheer Power Plus Gold Dots. The choice for cartridges is abundant, as is the choice for revolvers. I carry the 640 Centennial because of the internal hammer, which reduces the likelihood of snag. It also profiles a slimmer five round cylinder, which I hope will never have me regretting leaving my Colt Detective six shooter at home. Mind you; This is my last resort for carry and not my first choice. In my area, we have far more criminals who carry than we do citizens. If one is suspected of having a gun on his person, he might become suddenly faced with several squad cars of trigger happy hero wanna bees, from a "Man With Gun" call. I expect in the near future they will come up with a gun which conceals similar to that of a douch bag probe.Galco "Concealable " Havana Brown Holster and Craig Spegel Coco Bolo Boot Grips. |
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Post by TBT on Dec 18, 2007 19:50:36 GMT -5
Have you ever tried pocket carry DA? The 640, to me, seems like it would be a bit of a pocket anchor. If I bought a snubbie, it would be for pocket carry. I would really rather the .357 magnum but if it just isn't shootable like Tman says, then the 38sp would make more sense.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 18, 2007 20:35:01 GMT -5
TBT; The State Laws Of Georgia require the carrying of a firearm to be in that of a holster device. To accommodate such a law I have a leather jacket from Coronando Leather Company, which has a built in holster pocket. However; The jacket is such that I can wear my Sig 239 or one of my 1911s on a belt. The 640 Centennial can not only be carried inside a pocket, when legal, it can also be fired from inside a pocket because of it's internal hammer. My own 640 has the ported barrel, which rules out the safe shooting from inside a pocket. Problem with most snubbies is with the length of the extractor rods not being long enough to fully extract the empty shell casings. This is common with the 38 and especially the longer cases of the .357 magnum. To correct this problem, the extractor shroud has to be machined to accept the longer extractor rod and a lock has to be placed on the crane. A 2 1/2 to 3" inch barrel is needed for the longer extractor rod. |
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Post by TBT on Dec 18, 2007 21:07:34 GMT -5
If the 640 can be carried in a pocket then that might be the way to go. A whole lot cheaper too.
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Post by TMan on Dec 18, 2007 21:17:34 GMT -5
Never heard about the law requiring a holster. I do always carry the revolvers in a pocket holster. However, that is mainly to protect the gun from anything else I may stuff in the pocket. I get brain-farts and put keys in that pocket occasionally.
TMan; I popped in on the wrong message posting; Please excuse me. These google syndication is wreaking havoc on my computer today.
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Post by TBT on Dec 18, 2007 21:53:02 GMT -5
Yeah I think regardless of law I would use a pocket holster. Except maybe stashing it in a jacket pocket. I'm not sure.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 18, 2007 23:44:09 GMT -5
Never heard about the law requiring a holster. I do always carry the revolvers in a pocket holster. However, that is mainly to protect the gun from anything else I may stuff in the pocket. I get brain-farts and put keys in that pocket occasionally. That's More like it; The last time I had hit Modify instead of Quote. The google sydication has slowed my computer down to a snail's pace, which caused me not to see it. I try to keep up on all the gun carry laws in the State and the methods of carry. I do this for my own protection. There are also those in the Law Enforcement communities, here, who are known to have acquired firearms in lieu of making arrests or filing charges on confiscations arising from illegal carries. In other words, "Just Give Me The Gun and We will Forget About Taking You To Jail". I don't play that. |
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 18, 2007 23:56:19 GMT -5
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Post by MLB on Dec 19, 2007 21:20:57 GMT -5
I ran into an related problem a week or so ago. Taking my daughter to a "father daughter" dance downtown on a Friday night got me into a suit that I haven't worn in quite a while. Apparently, my waist was 3" smaller back then.  Generally, I can get my ppk/s inside my belt with any pants, but not these. I just barely got my own can in there. What to do... I don't have a pocket holster, but I'd rather have more than a cell phone on me. I do have a sholder holster that I've used once, but with this situation, keeping it concealed would be difficult. I don't want to imagine the chaos that would ensue if my sidearm was noticed in a ballroom full of (700 or so) young ladies. In the pocket it goes, holster and all. Since it's an IWB, it's rather small to begin with (mine's a Don Hume), and it worked well enough. I would have much prefered it to be at 4:00 where it belongs though. I need a new black suit. |
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Dec 19, 2007 23:54:51 GMT -5
Looking at the "ballistic gelletin" pictures, I just don't see that much difference between 9mm and .45acp. I understand the big difference in energy, but the hole in the blob, and the penetration are *about* the same. A 9mm and .38+p are nearly the same aren't they? ML; The 9mm cartridges in this test reflects velocities common in the +P variety of 9mm cartridges. A defensive +P .45 acp cartridge, in 185 gr., will have around 1100 fps. |
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