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Post by "DoubleAction" on Feb 21, 2006 8:54:47 GMT -5
TMan; Years ago I had a very good action job done on a 1911, and made the mistake of letting the hammer drop after removing the slide. After taking it to the range I began getting hammer follow with full auto. I took it back to the pistolsmith, which he looked me square in the eye with, "Did you let the hammer drop with the slide removed ?". I told him I might have, playing ignorant, with a guilt ridden face  . Everyone learns by their own mistakes sometimes. |
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Post by TBT on Feb 21, 2006 10:13:17 GMT -5
So your talking about assembling the whole gun again. Put everything back together and slowly lower the hammer.
I don't think that the rattle would exist with the gun all back together to be honest but thats what I'm working on now, putting the gun back together.
I might owe Tman a bottle of wine for his headache the more and more I think about this. I said before in this thread that I didnf't think that the hammer had play in it but I was thinking, and there is no way that I would know.
I only released the hammer with the slide removed once (wanted to see the hammer move down at a better angle and my manual didn't tell me NOT to so ...) so that was the only time I could have seen this.
Right now I'm trying to figure out how the gosh darn sear and disconnector fit in there. They kind of fell out when I was taking the gun apart and I didn't get a good look at them.
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Post by TBT on Feb 21, 2006 10:43:04 GMT -5
Well, I think that I got the disconnector and the sear in there the right way by looking at pictures but I think my pin is scrap now. Holding the frame in my hand by the grip I push the sear pin in through the left. The pin is way too loose in there. I even tried tapping it once its in there and it won't tighten or grab anything. Falls right back out.
Garsh-darnit!
I think that I have to order new pins. Is this common to detail stripping that the pins have to be replaced? This is the first time that the gun has been taken down like this so you would think that I could reuse the pins at least once wouldn't you?
Darnit ...
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Post by Callahan on Feb 21, 2006 11:50:20 GMT -5
Well, I think that I got the disconnector and the sear in there the right way by looking at pictures but I think my pin is scrap now. Holding the frame in my hand by the grip I push the sear pin in through the left. The pin is way too loose in there. I even tried tapping it once its in there and it won't tighten or grab anything. Falls right back out. Garsh-darnit! I think that I have to order new pins. Is this common to detail stripping that the pins have to be replaced? This is the first time that the gun has been taken down like this so you would think that I could reuse the pins at least once wouldn't you? Darnit ... |
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Post by TBT on Feb 21, 2006 12:40:25 GMT -5
Well, what I'm doing with the 1911 is beyond what you can do with a modern pistol. I don't believe its recomended that you detail strip say a Glock or Beretta.
I'm actuall very impressed at how easy this is to be honest. The whole gun came apart in less than 10 minutes and I'm a stumbling idiot to the highest decree. I'm sure after I get it back together the first time I will be able to detail strip and reassemble again in less than 20 minutes.
Its suprisingly simple Callahan.
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Post by TMan on Feb 21, 2006 16:05:06 GMT -5
Just got in from the range and running some errands. The MN shot surprisingly well. The Henry Golden Boy performed as expected. This is my 3rd Henry, and I see a 4th probably before summer. I've got to see how taxes come out. Anyhow, got a loose pin? Hey, everybody tells me I have a screw loose. I don't think S&W uses roll pins, so you shouldn't have to replace the pins. The question is: will the pin come out if the grips are in place. I've seen some rather loose pins that can't really go anywhere when the grips are in place. The CZ-52 pin problem had nothing to hold it and it had to be peened in order to keep it from walking out of the gun. Callahan, 1911's  I wouldn't say that I'm as big a 1911 fan as DA, but I am fond of them. I think I have 7 of them in total (3 Kimbers, 2 Wilsons, 1 Dan Wesson, and 1 Springfield), and I'm pretty sure I'll be adding another one before the year is out. More than likely I'll get a longslide Springfield. The thing I like most about the 1911's is that I shoot them better than I do a lot of other pistols. The amazing thing is that the length of the barrel doesn't seem to make any difference in the accuracy. So why do I want a Longslide version? What are you a shrink? |
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Feb 21, 2006 17:50:48 GMT -5
TBT; Remember to insert the hammer and sear pin from the left side of the frame, the thumb safety will hold them in place once it's installed.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Feb 21, 2006 17:55:16 GMT -5
Well, I think that I got the disconnector and the sear in there the right way by looking at pictures but I think my pin is scrap now. Holding the frame in my hand by the grip I push the sear pin in through the left. The pin is way too loose in there. I even tried tapping it once its in there and it won't tighten or grab anything. Falls right back out. Garsh-darnit! I think that I have to order new pins. Is this common to detail stripping that the pins have to be replaced? This is the first time that the gun has been taken down like this so you would think that I could reuse the pins at least once wouldn't you? Darnit ... TBT; The pins will be alright. Hold the frame with the left side tilted, so that the pins will not fall out. |
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Post by TBT on Feb 21, 2006 20:10:41 GMT -5
Okay ... first off, you guys rock.
Second, this stuff is easy! Its so cool that I now understand a bit of how the gun goes together and works.
Third, I'm stuck again.
Reassembling the gun I get to the point where I need to cock the hammer, put in the plunger spring, and install the thumb safe. Well, no cock. It's just springy and won't stay back. I pull it back and nothing, it just goes forward again. Did I install my sear wrong? My disconnector? What did I do? I tore it back down again ...
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Post by TBT on Feb 21, 2006 20:11:37 GMT -5
I can't see any other way that the sear and disconnector can go in there ...
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Post by TMan on Feb 21, 2006 22:12:51 GMT -5
You looked at the pictures in the web-site link I gave you for the sear and disconnector relationship - right? As I'm sure you know, it is the sear that prevents the hammer from falling after it has been cocked. You did install the sear/disconnector spring assembly - correct? Does the sear look okay? Based on the knowledge that DA imparted, it could have been damaged by the hammer falling when the slide wasn't installed. Take a look at this link. It shows the relationships and has some good pictures, which as we know are worth 1,000 words. Except of course in my case where they are worth 10,000 words because I'm so verbose. www.m1911.org/stripin1.htm |
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Post by TBT on Feb 21, 2006 22:48:17 GMT -5
Yeah, I checked out the pictures A LOT. Thats exactly what mine looks like in there.
Sear/disconnector spring assembly? Whats that? You mean the leaf springy thingy?
I have no idea what a sear is supposed to look like. Taking it out was the first I had ever seen one. I can say that I don't see any dents or nicks in it though.
That little animation in that link pretty much tells me what the issue is. The hammer isn't catching on the sear or the sear isn't holding the hammer back. Why though?
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Post by TMan on Feb 21, 2006 23:13:11 GMT -5
Yup, it is that springy-thingy. One of the best write-ups I've seen on it is in the Brownell's article: www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/GunTech/NewsletterArchive.aspx?p=0&t=1&i=349Read it carefully, especially where the hammer follows the slide. Examine the hooks on the hammer too. You don't want to do all that is in the article at this point, just to understand why it is doing what it doing. I'm going to be off the computer for the rest of the night - I hope. I've got to go take this MN apart again because I didn't get the rings on right that hold the handguard in place. Also, I have to do something about this trigger. I'm going to try to see if I can find something to use for shim material and shim the spring away from the receiver to reduce some of the tension on it. |
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Feb 22, 2006 8:33:39 GMT -5
TBT; The pin has to go through the hole on the side of the sear. You might have not had the sear pin hole for the sear properly aligned when you installed the pin.
If you look on my MSN Group pages, you will see a small set of sissor type twizers that I use to set the sear and disconnector into the frame, prior to installing the pin. After installing the sear and disconnector, it is only then that I proceed with installing the hammer.
The twizers can be found in in the ladies cosmetic section; they use them for plucking eye browes or lashes, I think. I got my twizers from my mother.
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Post by Callahan on Feb 22, 2006 10:02:51 GMT -5
Its suprisingly simple Callahan. ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by TBT on Feb 22, 2006 10:31:29 GMT -5
I'm telling you Callahan I'm no gunsmith, I've never seen the parts in a 1911 and I didn't even know their names to be honest, and I did it. That's a testament to how easy it is. I did it with a little help from Tman and DA. Anyone can do it. Great design. I'm soooo stoked now. I feel like I know my guns better now.
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DA, Tman ... its back together. I had the sear seated in there wrong just ever so slightly. Took it back apart and threw it back together ans wha-la! Works.
Having it field stripped (slide removed) if the hammer is cocked I get no rattle at all and everything seems tight and good.
If I lower the hammer (by hand) with the slide off I have a rattle and the hammer will move front to back. I'm pretty sure the rattle is the hammer and or strut.
With the gun fully assembled everything is the cat's meow. Sweet and smooth as butter. Should I be worried about that hammer moving?
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Post by Callahan on Feb 22, 2006 10:43:16 GMT -5
Glad to hear it! As I recall, DA had something somewhere on a detail strip for Sigs, too. Maybe I ought to check that out. Something tells me that would be worse than what you went through!
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Feb 22, 2006 10:46:39 GMT -5
TBT; There are things you can do in order to test the functions on the pistol, without firing live ammo. One thing is called "The Pencil Test"; This is where your pistol is unloaded, with a pencil inserted into the barrel with the eraser end next to the firing pin. The barrel should be pointed in a safe direction, slightly upward so that the eraser rests on the breech face.
Manually cocking the hammer, and releasing it with the trigger should launch the pencil. I use new unsharpened cils for this. It's also a good way to test the firing pin safeties and decocking levers on some other pistol designs.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Feb 22, 2006 11:13:57 GMT -5
Glad to hear it! As I recall, DA had something somewhere on a detail strip for Sigs, too. Maybe I ought to check that out. Something tells me that would be worse than what you went through! Callahan; Sigs are a little tricky but not so much to where they are impossible. I was probably one of the first customers to put in for the AGI video on the Sigs; I pre-paid my order before they started production of the tape. I once started a Sig Group, where I had some disaasembly photos posted. I still have them on a disc. One guy wanted to know how to turn his magazine release around for left hand and I provided the photo instructions for that. Another was removing the trigger, trigger bar, take down lever, decocker, slide release, ejector, and locking insert. I was able to bring the single action trigger pulll on a 226 down to 3.75 lbs, with a very light and smooth double action stroke, without removing the sear. I did replace the mainspring with one of a reduced power tension from Wolff. |
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Post by TBT on Feb 22, 2006 11:36:00 GMT -5
DA ... great idea! Tried it just now and it launches the pencil half way across the room! Does everything sound in order and good then? The hammer moving a bit when the slide is off shouldn't be an issue?
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. Everyone learns by their own mistakes sometimes.
I wouldn't say that I'm as big a 1911 fan as DA, but I am fond of them. I think I have 7 of them in total (3 Kimbers, 2 Wilsons, 1 Dan Wesson, and 1 Springfield), and I'm pretty sure I'll be adding another one before the year is out. More than likely I'll get a longslide Springfield. The thing I like most about the 1911's is that I shoot them better than I do a lot of other pistols. The amazing thing is that the length of the barrel doesn't seem to make any difference in the accuracy. So why do I want a Longslide version? What are you a shrink?