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Post by TBT on Jan 17, 2006 10:11:53 GMT -5
Lets say that I want to completely disassemble a 1911. How tough is this? Do I need any special tools to do so? I want to be able to do this so thats pretty much my only reason.
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Post by TMan on Jan 17, 2006 12:12:28 GMT -5
TBT, it is a piece of cake if you follow the instructions. I can't recall any special tools other than what is needed for a field-strip. DA has some excellent 1911 information on our Group MSN pages: groups.msn.com/HANDGUNS/1911functionsdisassemblyassembly.msnwJust make sure you use the proper screwdriver so you don't screw-up the screws. |
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Jan 17, 2006 20:42:45 GMT -5
TBT; No special tools required. The only thing you will need is a small punch ( the flat end of a finishing nail can be used) for the mainspring spring housing pin, a small hammer to drive the pin out ( any small blunt instrument can be used ), a pin pusher ( again, the flat end of a small finishing nail can be used), and a small screw driver to compress the plunger tube spring, while your reinstalling the thumb safety ( you can also substute a plastic picnic knife to prevent scratching your frame ).
After the gun is unloaded, the grips and slide is removed, and the thumb safety is removed prior to the mainspring housing pin. The Thumb Safety must be removed prior to removing the mainspring housing pin.
Better to know how the internals Functions, prior to giving thought to disassembly, that is why I included a functions section on the 1911.
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Post by TBT on Jan 18, 2006 23:58:00 GMT -5
Good info ... thanks guys.
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Post by TBT on Feb 19, 2006 20:32:36 GMT -5
Okay ... I stripped it. Not so much because I wanted to but because I think that I broke something. Heh. God I'm stupid. I had the SW1911 field stripped and was sitting there checking it out. All of a sudden I pulled the trigger with the slide off and the hammer went flying forward with a load "clank".
Afterward I notice that the hammer now has a ton of play in it when it is in the forward position and there is something inside the gun "rattling" when you shake it. Needless to say, something was screwed up.
So I checked out the pictures here and did a little research and got the gun completely stripped down (except for the external extractor which I couldn't find an FAQ on).
Problem is, I can't find the problem. Everything looks fine to. Consider though that I'm not used to looking at these parts and might not know if something is wrong. Anything you could advise me to check out that might cause the hammer to have a lot of play in it as a result of my pulling the trigger while field stripped?
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Post by TBT on Feb 19, 2006 20:34:07 GMT -5
Could I just "replace everything" in there with say Wilson parts and that would solve the problem? Does Top Gun Supply carry all that? TA might love me once he gets my Paypal statment lol ...
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Post by TBT on Feb 19, 2006 20:38:25 GMT -5
Was looking at the Wilson grip safeties just now and they suggest a "jig" that they sell for installing their grip safes. I have to cut into my frame to replace the grip safe?!?!?! My god ... my heart just stopped!
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Post by TMan on Feb 19, 2006 21:11:24 GMT -5
Ice dancing is on the Olympics - boring. What you are doing is more interesting.
Although dropping the hammer is not encouraged, I can't picture what damage it could have done to make the hammer loose. Is it loose from side to side or front to back (i.e. direction of normal travel)? Which of your 1911's are you operating on?
Wow, there is a girl representing Israel skating. She is really attractive. Guess this ice dancing isn't so bad after all. Wonder if my wife could get an assignment in Israel. This gal sure doesn't look like the Chinese women.
DA is the 1911 expert, hopefully he is feeling okay and will respond.
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Post by TBT on Feb 19, 2006 21:20:37 GMT -5
I'm working on the Smith and Wesson 1911. I've got it all in pieces in little zip-lick bags lol. Its a little loose side to side but for the most part I'm talking about front to back (normal travel). Its got about 1/4 inch play actually which just doesn't seem good. That and it rattles now in the gun.
DA is sick?
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Post by TMan on Feb 19, 2006 21:51:59 GMT -5
Hmmm, I don't have a S&W 1911 so I don't know if there is anything unique about them, but I doubt it.
At what point in the reassembly do you notice the hammer looseness? Do you have the complete gun back together? I mean you do have the main spring back in don't you? The hammer strut goes from the hammer to the spring, which applies tension to the hammer. It isn't reasonable that you could have done anything to the pin that holds the hammer, so I'm tending to think it is something related to the spring. Possibly a link broken off the spring?
DA has been having back problems, which limits his activities.
I just took the Browning Classic apart. Dang, the recoil spring on that is almost as hard to get back in as the Remington 597. I hate these long weak springs that you have to compress to get back together after cleaning.
Actually, I hate springs. I got a Ruger back together today and then noticed a little spring and plunger on the floor. Crap, it was the one that is on the back side of the ejector. Had to take it all apart again.
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Post by TMan on Feb 19, 2006 22:59:25 GMT -5
Okay, I dug out the manual. It is kind of key to understand where the rattle is coming from. If you hold tension on the hammer and shake the gun, does the rattle go away?
I'm wondering if the strut itself could be bent. If you have some paper with grid lines and you lay the strut down on the paper. Place the bottom of the strut on a horizontal grid line. If you measure straight down from the center of the hammer strut pin hole to the horizontal grid line, it should be 2.015" -.01" If it is less than that, we may have found the problem.
We aren't chasing a ghost here are we? In other words, is it possible that it has always been loose and you never noticed it? After doing something that you thought could be damaging, you might be more sensitive to what you perceive is a problem.
I used to see this years ago when troubleshooting problems in the computer's operating system. A customer would have a problem, which would end up as being a problem in the operating system. After that for several weeks every time they thought they had a problem, they assumed it was an operating system problem. It wasn't, but it took a while to get them back to believing in the system again.
After rebuilding an automobile engine, road/tire noise that you never noticed before will drive you crazy. The dog farts and you pull over and open the hood.
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Post by TBT on Feb 20, 2006 1:13:52 GMT -5
Lol ... Tman, you give me all these answers and I'm off watching a movie with the wife lol. Sorry about that.
1 - I have not put the gun back together yet. I'm not even sure that I can. The loose hammer is when the gun is field stripped and the slide is removed but everything on the frame is still in tact.
2 - I've thought too that maybe thats the way it was before but I don't think so. I don't know for sure though. I think that would have stuck out as none of me other guns are that way. Are some 1911's like that ... with the loose hammer?
3 - What is the strutt your talking about? Is that the piece of metal that hangs down on the hammer assembly? I know that piece of metal is loose where it attaches to the hammer. Like, on that pin it has a lot of play and wobble any way.
I've got like 3-4 glasses of vodka in me right now from when I was watching the movie (Saw II is nasty good fun) so I don't really want to mess with it any being tipsy. Vodka+gun=bad things man ...
Thanks for the help! I'm gonne pick this up in the morning again ...
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Post by TMan on Feb 20, 2006 4:33:25 GMT -5
So here I am up all night waiting for a response from you and you are off drinking and watching movies. ;D Actually, I just woke up a few minutes ago and came down and ate some yogurt. My stomach is still not right from this last trip. Okay, the arm that goes from the hammer to the main spring is the strut that I'm talking about. When you cock the hammer, the strut pushes down on the mainspring and causes the hammer to push against the sear. (Hope I'm making at little sense here.) When the gun is fired and the hammer goes forward, on some guns there is still some amount of tension on that strut, which will keep the hammer from moving around. On other guns, I've seen it where there isn't any tension on the strut and the hammer does move around a bit. I'm having problems picturing this in my mind. I don't have a 1911 handy. (I'd have to go get the keys out of one safe to operate the combination on the safe the handguns are in. Currently, I don't remember the combination to the first safe, which my wife normally uses and she will know by heart, but she is at work.) Anyhow, the strut is the big long thing that is sticking up in the air in DA's picture 021.jpg in the Group Pages. I tried unsucessfully to show it here. Something MSN is doing to me I'm sure because I can get to it from TinyURL.com I just remembered something: go here and read his info on disassembly and reassembly. I forgot that this was online: www.surplusrifle.com/pistol1911/fulldisassemble/index.aspI'm going back to bed. |
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Post by TBT on Feb 20, 2006 10:47:13 GMT -5
So you think that this might not be a problem? I have to admit, when the gun is fully assembled it seems to function properly. I mean, there is tension on the hammer, it comes forward fine etc. Maybe it is just loose and I kept you up chasing a ghost for no reason? Should I put it back together and ignore that rattle? Would replacing the hammer get rid of that rattle? A Wilson hammer maybe?
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Post by TBT on Feb 20, 2006 11:28:13 GMT -5
Also, I can't find a hammer that has the strut attached (unless it is and it just isn't pictured) so getting a new hammer might not help me if it is the strut thats fubared. Can't find a hammer strut either for sale though I'm sure someone has to have them.
BTW Tman, thats a good link you posted above. Thanks.
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Post by TMan on Feb 20, 2006 14:53:22 GMT -5
I'm guessing that the strut, if needed, can be ordered from www.e-gunparts.com/ I think you need to find out where the rattle is coming from in order to have confidence in the gun again. If you can't locate it by applying external pressure to components then I would suggest getting a can of grease from the auto parts store. Then using a large gob of grease on each internal part should eliminate the rattle when you grease the right one. |
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Post by TBT on Feb 20, 2006 16:05:00 GMT -5
So I need to put the d**n thing back together again huh? I'm pretty sure that the rattle is coming from the hammer/strut but not 100% sure.
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Post by TMan on Feb 20, 2006 19:14:45 GMT -5
I not sure I'm hitting on all cylinders here.
One approach is to put a little bit together, shake, when you get the noise, remove the last part, grease, and try again. I forgot to mention that disk brake grease works the best.
You could just put in the mainspring assembly, strut, and hammer and see if that is where it is coming from.
The other approach would be to have everything together, get the rattle, and then start removing until the rattle goes away.
Based on your previous comments, I'm assuming you don't see any damage to the hammer or where the hammer hit the frame - right?
Assembling and disassembling 1911's is not a big deal.
I have two CZ-52's. The first one I did a complete detail strip and then put it back together. Getting the sear back into it was a nightmare. After finally getting it back together, one of the pins kept walking out. I finally got it peened where it would stay. The second one is taking up space in the closet waiting to provide parts to the first if I ever need it.
I read a lot of good stuff about the CZ-52's that were obviously written by people that hadn't shot anything good.
I digress... again. Anyhow, I think the 1911 is one of the easiest guns to work on. The only one I think is slightly easier is the Browning Hi-Power.
Of course once you have done it a couple of times it gets easier.
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Post by "DoubleAction" on Feb 21, 2006 0:08:05 GMT -5
TBT; One thing to avoid is dropping the hammer with the trigger when the slide is removed, this can cause damage to the sear nose because of the excessive overtravel of the hammer.
The rattle you might be hearing with the slide removed and the hammer forward, might be with the lesser tension on the mainspring since the hammer is not normally positioned that far on the frame when fully assembled.
Install the slide to the frame, slowly lower the hammer, and see if the same rattle continues to exist. Hammer struts are very strong and usually don't require replacing; I usually use the same strut from one hammer to the next. Even on my Wilson Combat pistols, there is slack where the strut pins to the hammer.
The internet really helps in gaining an understanding of the 1911, and saves alot of money too. When I learned about it I had to order many books to obtain different views on the functional parts and how modifications could improve on what I had problems with.
It's really a simple non complicated design, requiring no special tools to disassemble or great amount of knowledge to understand. However; It's still a firearm and should treated as such, with safety first.
A few thoughts with the 1911 involves a few things one should not do while disassembling the pistol.
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Post by TMan on Feb 21, 2006 3:24:06 GMT -5
DA, glad to have you back on board. I've been dying on the vine here. I had no clue that the sear could be damaged by dropping the hammer without the slide being installed. I knew it was a bad idea, but I had no idea what damage could be caused by doing so.
Nothing I read in the manuals that I have gave me a clue.
I've had my toast - I'm going back to bed. (I finally got the MN bolt back together a little after midnight. Good grief. )
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