Detail Stripping a 1911

["DoubleAction"]

TBT; With the grips removed from the frame, look on the inside of the magazine well. You should be able to see the sear, with the disconnector going down the middle, through a square hole in the frame. Using a small screw driver, or wire bent on one end; press against the top portion of the sear in the hole and then try to move the Thumb Safety up and out. This will be one method of gaining access to positioning the sear. Work a little on this and see if it works. Don't get mad, there is more than one way out of this.

[TBT]

Well, I was fiddling with the gun a bit ago before I read your above post DA. I got it back together and in working order as opposed to getting it all the way stripped down.

By putting the hammer at rest and pulling the trigger forward some I was able to lift the grip safety to reinsert the sear spring. Once that was in and I realized that the hammer had to be down to reinsert the mainspring housing (stupid me had the hammer back while trying to slide the mainspring housing up onto the frame) everything went back together nice as rain.

I need to be more careful taking this gun apart and putting it back together.

You said that what I did wrong to begin with was that I took the mainspring housing out before I took the thumb safety off correct DA? Maybe I need to get you to list the steps for me so I can do them order. I understand all the steps so explaination isn't really needed I guess, I just need to do things in the right order.

You've been a godsend yet again. I thank you.

["DoubleAction"]

TBT; I'm glad you were able to get it back together. I did not want to scare you earlier but what happened was the worse thing one can do when disaasembling the frame. The thumb safety is locked in partially by the sear, and the thumb safety retains the pins, as well as the grip safety. The thumb safety is the first to be removed and the last thing to be reassembled to the lockwork.

The Order Of Frame Dissassembly

After removing the slide and grips

Cock Hammer to postion Sear For Thumb Safety Removal

Push Thumb Safety in most Upper Position, pull out while slightly applying a vibrating wobble motion

After Thumb Safety Is Removed

Slowly Lower Hammer to Frame, in order to relieve the Mainspring tension on the Hammer Strut

Remove mainspring housing retaining pin from left side of frame

Lower mainspring housing only enough so that the grip safety can be removed

Remove grip safety

Lower Mainspring Housing and remove

Remove Sear Leaf Spring

The Hammer pin can now be pushed out to allow the removal of the hammer

Remove sear and disconnector pins

Remove Magazine Release Assembly From Frame

Remove Trigger

The Reassembly is in reversed order, Which will be offered up if you need.

[TBT]

God ... I had to do the worst thing possible huh? Its good you didn't scare me with that lol. I was scared enough. I knew it was bad but your calm words helped more than you know. Kept me focused. I kept telling myself "DA is gonna walk me through this. DA is gonna walk me through this. Deep breath. Deeeeeep breath." Ha. Thanks man!

So, according to your steps above .. after the slide is off the frame and the grips have been removed, if I cock the hammer and push the thumb safe up, it should wiggle free? I still have concerns that something is wrong with my thumb safe because it wasn't budging. Also I've now noticed that there is a "two-stage" feel to it. Not sure if it was there before but I get liketwo clicks when engaging it. It goes up a little, clicks, and then I can push it even more (and its stiff) and I get another click and then its engaged. What does that sound like to you? Is that just an SW thing?

[TBT]

DA, I know its only reverse order but I would forever swear fealty to you if you would list it for me. I'm going to copy and paste these to a word doc, print it out and keep a copy with each 1911 until such time as it is complete second nature.

["DoubleAction"]

tbt said:

God ... I had to do the worst thing possible huh? Its good you didn't scare me with that lol. I was scared enough. I knew it was bad but your calm words helped more than you know. Kept me focused. I kept telling myself "DA is gonna walk me through this. DA is gonna walk me through this. Deep breath. Deeeeeep breath." Ha. Thanks man!

So, according to your steps above .. after the slide is off the frame and the grips have been removed, if I cock the hammer and push the thumb safe up, it should wiggle free? I still have concerns that something is wrong with my thumb safe because it wasn't budging. Also I've now noticed that there is a "two-stage" feel to it. Not sure if it was there before but I get liketwo clicks when engaging it. It goes up a little, clicks, and then I can push it even more (and its stiff) and I get another click and then its engaged. What does that sound like to you? Is that just an SW thing?

TBT; The first click you are probably hearing is the notch in the Thumb Safety engaging with the plunger tube spring, the second click is probably the plunger tube spring making another click below that of the first notch in the safety. The stiffness you are feeling is the engagment lug of the thumb safety pressing against the Sear. I'll make the reassembling list up for you after I straighten out something on my computer.
I'm glad to be of some help somewhere on this planet.

[TBT]

Good to hear DA. It engages fine and seems to work well. I'm still not sure if its going to slide out easy enough for disassembly though.

You're more help than you could possibly know. Fobos and I have often talked of how much of a resource you are and how kind it is of you to offer knowledge here. Tman has really followed in your footsteps in that regard as well. I thank you both.

[TMan]

TBT, most of what I know, I learned either directly or indirectly from DA.

It was DA that gently led me from being a semi-auto only novice to someone that could appreciate a revolver. Then a double-action revolver, and on to replicas of some of the old west single-actions.

At every step I had questions, which I never hesitated to ask. He responded directly, or led me on a path to discover the answer in a manual, which I should own.

I'm sure at times that I had to try his patience, as most students do at one or more times to their mentors. However, he never seemed to run out of patience or show any frustration with me (something most people totally fail at).

The gun manufacturers should truly love him because without his assistance, guidance, and support of this forum, I would more than likely have lost interest in guns a long time ago. More than likely my wife would be complaining that the house smells like model airplane glue. (Gun cleaners smell better?)

I hope I haven't caused him too much concern as I've gone on the garden path of military surplus rifles. There is something about a rifle that was once carried by a soldier into battle and his life depended on it. (What was he thinking? Why didn't he do something about the horrible trigger pull? ;D )

The good news is: there isn't much left on the surplus market that I don't already own or have an interest in owning.

Slightly off topic - again: I'd rather shoot a 4" group with a old military rifle, open sights, and a crappy bore, than a 1/8" group with a new super rifle and Leopold scope.

["DoubleAction"]

Thanks for the kind words everyone; I'll now proceed to put in order, in my own words, of how I assemble the frame's fire control components on the standard 1911. I won't get into Colt's Series 80 safety levers with this one.

["DoubleAction"]

How I Assemble the 1911 frame

In order of Assembly

Prior to Assembly, check the Plunger Tube and Ejector for any play

Install Trigger

Check for any excessive vertical or horizonal play and any grit to the movement.

Install Magazine Release/Catch

Install Sear & Disconnector

I lightly lube the disconnector, sear, and pins prior to installing.I also check to assure myself that the pin has protruded through the hole in the sear

Install Hammer

I also apply a small amount of lubricant to the hammer pin, with a very small amount of action lube to the Hammer Hooks, prior to installing.

After installing the hammer, position the hammer fully forward against the frame, with the strut arm swung in the up position away from the frame.

Install the Sear Leaf Spring

Prepare the Mainspring Housing for Installation

One thing I do, prior to installing the Mainspring Housing, is apply lube to the mainspring cap where the hammer strut seats.

With the Hammer fully forward against the frame, and the Strut Arm in the upper postion, begin installing the Mainspring Housing. As you begin getting close to seating the mainspring housing, stop and swing the strut into postion to align the tip of the strut with that of the Mainspring Cap

As soon as the tip of the strut begins aligning into the Mainspring Housing, Stop, and Begin Installing the Grip Safety

With the Grip Safety in place, proceed with pressing the Mainspring Housing in place, while the Hammer Strut aligns into the seated postion of the cap

With the Mainspring Housing in place, install the retaining pin from the left side of the frame, while holding the grip safety in place

With the Mainspring Housing Installed, Cock the Hammer to the full Cocked postion.

The Installation of the Thumb Safety

Make sure the plunger/spring is installed in the plunger tube

Apply a light film of lube to the Thumb Safety pin

Align the Grip Safety in place and begin installing the Thumb Safety

The Thumb Safety must go into the frame in the up postion, and may require some manuvering to seat.

Prior to fully seating the Thumb Safety into the Frame, the plunger spring will have to be compressed, under the thumb safety. I do this by gently applying pressure to the plunger, using a small screw driver, while pressing the Thumb Safety into position, and being very careful in not adding a scratch from the point of the screw driver to the frame.

That seems to be everything, unless I left something out. Just be careful not to let the the hammer drop with the slide removed.I also recommend looking at some pictures on this, which we also have posted on our group area.

[TBT]

Thanks DA. Quick question ... when pulling the thumb safety out for disassembly, what position should the grip safety be in or does it even mater? I just wanted to make sure just in case one way (engaged or disengaged) would cause a lock up or further problems.

Once you answer I'm probably going to give this another shot.

[TBT]

I got my answer elsewhere surfing around. From what I can tell it doesn't matter unless you take the mainspring housing off first in which case the grip safety has to remain depressed or something like that.

Anywho ...

There is definately something up with my thumb safe. It doesn't wiggle free. I've tried everything and its not budging at all, for anyone, at any point. Seems to work fine fully assembled but unless I'm doing something studip again, the thing is locked in there nice and good.

["DoubleAction"]

TBT; In removing the Thumb Safety, the Hammer must be fully cocked ( I reckon you already know this). Also; The Thumb Safety must be in it's most upper position. I always pull up and out on the safety while I'm wiggling it free, while grasping the plunger tube in order to prevent loosening it from the frame. Some factory installed Thumb safeties engage the sear much tighter than those which are handfitted. I've noticed this on some high dollar Kimbers, costing in excess of $1700. I've also had to tap the sear and hammer pins out on these same pistols, when pushing should have been all that was required. CNC methods of manufacturing has totally taken over the manufacturing of handguns, which often results in very tight tolerances.
The pressure you talked about, when the thumb safety is moved up, is all about the engagement lug pressing very firmly against the sear. Obtain a good firm grip on the plunger tube and begin. I've actually had to pry the Thumb Safety off a Kimber Gold Match Pistol.
I really don't think alot of these manufacturers take assembly into a perspective that one day someone will disassemble the pistol.

Edited To Add : TBT; If it were my pistol, or if I had it to do, I would apply a very liberal amount of of oil to the area between the grip safety bar & frame, on the sear ( on the inside of the mag well in the inside of the square hole, and between the hammer and frame.
Due to the fact that this pistol is of very tight tolerances, and has never seen proper lubrication, the parts are presently dificult to move out of position.

[TBT]

I've oiled the hell out of sear and hammer areas DA and pulled and pulled ... that thumb safety is NOT coming out. Should I try to pry it out? Seems that might put uneven force on the thumb safety and lodge it worse or maybe scratch the crap out of my frame even.

I don't know what else to try though. Its really, really, not coming out of there.

[TBT]

The first time I did this I didn't have this problem so I'm not sure that tight fit is the problem. Maybe I somehow chipped something, put a burr in it or something and now its getting hung up on that?

["DoubleAction"]

TBT; If you have removed the Thumb Safety in the past with no problem, something might be binding. Check to insure that the hammer is cocking correctly, and it is releasing as it should be. If you have ever removed the plunger from it's tube, make sure it is not interferring with the thumb safety's movement.
While cocking the hammer, listen for any binding in the sear spring. You can also check the disconnector by having the slide on, pull the trigger, continue to hold the trigger in while cycling the slide, and then release the trigger. When you release the trigger, after cycling the slide, you should hear the disconnector rise into position with a distinctive click.

Edited To Add: TBT; With the slide on, also check the functions of the Thumb safety by engaging it in the up, safety on, position. Now try to pull the trigger, with the grip safety depressed.
These are all details in tracking your problem. I also hope that the plunger is not binding behind the face of the thumb safety when the safety is in the up position, this can cause the tube to loosen if you try to remove the thumb safety in this condition, without depressing the plunger first.

[TBT]

The hammer seems to be cocking as it should. I've got half cock and full cock and the resistance (tension) seems excellent but not too much. It feels exactly the same as it did before it was stripped.

The plunger tube is definately not riding behind the thumb safety. I can see it resting there and it is maybe even a little bit to the outside of the safety. Doesn't seem like its outside enough that it would cause a problem though. The spring is fine as well. I can push it in with my tumb nail.

With the gun fully assembled I can cycle the slide with the trigger depressed and I can hear a very distinct "click" when I release it.

The thumb safety is working and in good order when assembled. With the hammer cocked and the grip safety depressed the hammer will not fall when the thumb safety is engaged.

[TBT]

Could something be amiss with the drop safety (series 80/swartz ... not sure which one it has or if maybe its even its own design)?

["DoubleAction"]

TBT; Everything seems to appear in working order and there should be nothing stopping the thumb safety from being removed.
The only thing holding the Thumb Safety in is a slot that is cut being the outside face of the safety and the engagement lug of the safety, which the frame is sandwiched. The slot is cut on the bottom of the safety, hence, the reasoning in why the safety has to be in it's most upper position in order for the slot to clear the frame for removal. Pushing up on the safety allows this slot to clear the frame.
If nothing is preventing the upward movement of the safety, and nothing prevents it from being extracted from the outside of the frame, it should pull free.
One Last Thing : Sometimes the Grip Safety will bind on the Thumb Safety Bar on extraction. Try wiggling the safety toward the end of the grip safety, this is the area where I have had to pry a few out. Keep your hand free from the grip safety while trying to remove the thumb safety.

["DoubleAction"]

tbt said:

Could something be amiss with the drop safety (series 80/swartz ... not sure which one it has or if maybe its even its own design)?

The Kimbers are more known for the Swartz safeties these days, and it's just a small bar located on the right inside of the frame which the grip safety depresses. Colt once used the Swartz safety in one of their earlier pistols but discontinued it's use. The Series 80 belongs to Colt, and is not only a drop safety but one which remains activated after the grip safety is depressed.